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- 02/11/2013, 09:53AM ET
NHL Tourney TD: Rank the Careers: Khabibulin, Burke, Kolzig, Barrasso, Osgood.
ElevenRingsSTL said 02/11, 09:53 AM
Tough call on some of these, as we're dealing with some very similar careers, but here is my list:
1. Tom Barrasso: 2 Stanley Cups, 1 Vezina Trophy, 369 career wins. A little tougher to analyze stat-wise, as he's the only one of the five to play significant years in the higher-scoring '80s. I give him a slight edge over Osgood based in part on the Vezina.
2. Chris Osgood: 2 Stanley Cups in really 2 different eras with Detroit. 401 Wins and 74 career playoff wins. 50 career shutouts. Probably on more consistently quality teams than the other four.
3. Nikolai Khabibulin: 1 Stanley Cup, 328 career wins. Very similar stats to Kolzig, but backstopping the Cup winner in Tampa Bay in 2004 gives him a slight edge.
4. Olaf Kolzig: 1 Vezina Trophy, but only won 3 playoff series, and those all came in the same year. Losing career playoff record at 20-24.
5. Sean Burke: Only goalie of the 5 to have a worse career GAA and save % in the post-season than he did in the regular season throughout his career. After a nice playoff run his rookie year with the Devils, he never won another playoff series.
Good luck, Jim.
JimJ77 RIP Mil Town Pride said 02/11, 08:20 PM
I'm not going to waste time ranking these guys. I'm just going to switch your #1 and #2 picks and argue why Chris Osgood should be #1 on this list.
First off all I understand your point on Barrasso and the scoring craziness of the 80's. But Barrasso did play 12 seasons after the 80's and his numbers weren't up to par with Osgood.
In those 12 seasons Barrasso posted a GAA under 3 in only 3 seasons. A save % over .900, 5 times. Osgood on the other hand posted a GAA under 3 in 14 seasons and a save % over .900, 11 times.
Osgood career GAA was 2.49 compared to Barrasso's 3.24. In the playoffs Osgood really shined. In 129 games he posted a GAA of 2.09. Barrasso 3.01 in 119 games.
I understand Barrasso took home the Vezina in 83 but that's one good season. One good season does not define a career. Osgood also competed against some of the greatest goaltenders of all time. Roy, Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur, etc. I can't fault him for not winning a Vezina.
Osgood had a better career than Barrasso and the numbers bear that out. His numbers stand on their own and cannot be ignored and for that reason he should be ranked higher than Tom Barrasso.
ElevenRingsSTL said 02/12, 10:45 AM
It may be close call between the two, but on the basis of overall career, Barrasso wins out.
Barrasso not only won the Vezina, but he was a finalist four other times. Osgood was only a finalist once, in 1996.
Barrasso was a first team NHL All-Star once and 2nd team twice. Osgood was only second team NHL All-star one time.
Barrasso won the Calder Trophy.
Barrasso finished in the Top 10 in Hart voting three different times. Osgood was never close to the Top 10 in Hart voting. In fact, I could only find one year that he even got as much as a 5th place vote.
Barrasso also competed against those same great goaltenders that you mentioned. The four times he was a Vezina finalist, he finished second 3 times: to Pelle Lindbergh, Fuhr and Belfour. The last time he was a finalist, he finished third behind Hasek and Brodeur. Chris Osgood? His one year as a finalist he was up against Jim Carey and Darren Puppa.
The Hart and Vezina voting show that Barrasso was a much more integral to his team's success than was Osgood. Osgood put up good numbers, but benefited greatly from being on dominant Red Wing teams for much of his career.
Overall, Osgood comes up short.
JimJ77 RIP Mil Town Pride said 02/12, 02:01 PM
Here's the point. Barrasso won the Vezina before the 4 guys I mentioned even entered the league. It's not a coincidence that he never won a Vezina after those 4 guys came into the NHL. Those 4 guys I listed have 15 Vezina's between them. Kind of hard to win one with that level of competition.
I'm not so sure Barrasso was a more integral part of his team. Osgood was part of 3 Stanley Cup teams in Detroit. He is also 10th all time in wins with 401. In 2008 he replaced Dominik Hasek, who might be the greatest goalie of all time and led Detroit to a Stanley cup. In those playoffs Osgood posted a 14-4 record with a 1.55 GAA. I'd say that's pretty damn integral to his team.
Osgood was especially good come playoff time. His career GAA of 2.09 in the playoffs compares with the 4 guys I mentioned. Roy had a GAA of 2.30. Belfour 2.17. Hasek 2.02. Brodeur 2.02.
Osgood doesn't get the love he deserves because of the great Red Wing teams he was a part of, but people need to realize he was an integral part of those teams, and nothing displays that more than his run in 2008.
His career stats speak for themselves and they were better than Barrasso. His career was simply better.
ElevenRingsSTL said 02/13, 07:11 AM
The point you are missing is that Barrasso was frequently in the running for the Vezina, as evidenced by him being a finalist four times after his win. He also received significant Hart trophy votes throughout his career. Neither is true of Osgood. That is a key point when you are evaluating the body of work of an entire career. Barrasso was often in the discussion of the top goalies in the league, Osgood was not.
You can't simply rank a guy as better simply because he had more wins or better GAA. There is no doubt that Osgood's win totals were padded due to the team he was on. The truth is that there are a lot of goalies that could have won Cups if they had those Detroit teams in front of them. Barrasso faced an enormous amount of SOG while backstopping the two Cup wins in Pittsburgh, while Osgood was playing with significantly better defensive teams.
When you are ranking the overall careers, Barrasso has to come out ahead. A Vezina, a Calder, multiple times a Vezina finalist, and three times in the Top Ten in Hart voting. Osgood has none of those on his resume.
Good TD, Jim.
JimJ77 RIP Mil Town Pride said 02/13, 11:18 AM
Honestly I'm tired of Osgood's accomplishments being criticized because of the teams he played on. Barrasso played on great Penguin squads. Roy had great teams in Colorado. Brodeur had great teams in Jersey. I don't hear the criticism for those guys.
Ken Dryden played behind one of the greatest teams of all time in Montreal. He only won 6 more playoff games than Osgood but had 143 less regular season wins. We don't criticize Dryden because he was a clear Hall of Famer and great goaltender. So why criticize Osgood?
Sure Osgood played on great teams in Detroit, but he was one of the reasons why they were great. Like I've stated previously, Osgood had a playoff GAA of 2.09. He also had 15 playoff shutouts which ranks him 4th all time. Without him do the Red Wings win the cup in 2008? Are they 1 goal short of repeating in 2009? I have my doubts considering the way Hasek faltered in those 2008 playoffs.
Osgood has the 7th best GAA of all time. The 4th best win % of all time. He won 3 Stanley Cups, and stepped up his game big come playoff time as evidenced by above.
Its time Osgood gets the credit he deserves and it starts with being ranked above Tom Barrasso.
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Comments (28) Add A Comment
Jim's hatred of all things Pittsburgh has no limit.
MattUSA
Total Comments (2394)
he must really hate the Steelers then.
GBF57
Total Comments (11)
Agree with Jim's ranking. Will be good to see the arguments!
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2120)
Yet another reason to admire the wise gentleman.
Slapshot
Total Comments (8948)
Excellent 2'nd argument by left.
MattUSA
Total Comments (2394)
I probably shouldn't vote here. I have an extreme pro-Pittsburgh bias...
BM: RIP Mil Town…
Total Comments (61446)
and for the record, Olaf Kolzig played on some pretty bad teams (sorry Slappy!)...so his "losing career playoff record" cannot be attributed to him. let's face it, he carried them into the finals and 'stood on his head" that whole playoff season, only to come away empty. Conversely, barasso and Osgood played on some pretty good teams. But quiet frankly, barasso never impressed me. And quite honestly, who one loses to in vezina voting is rather irrelevant. Puppa and Carey (who I regularly make fun of by the way) happened to have good seasons that year, and after all isn't what this is all about? Good season...you win....your name means nothing
As great as a goalie is/was, you cannot base a lot purely on their record. Take a look at someone like Hasek. before he got to Detroit, he had 0 Stanley Cups and almost certainly a losing playoff record...
Spiny Norman
Total Comments (10781)
That's an odd choice of goalies to lump together for ranking purposes. Guys from the 80's, 90's and 00's. Not sure how Sean Burke even fits in. Might be easier to do this with a group that played at the same time for most of their careers.
Nobody expects…
Total Comments (13098)
Career win totals.
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2120)
not so sure about this last comment of that paragraph. osgood didn't so much "lead" that team. he only face 976 shots that season in 43 games good for a 22.7 shots against per game. that's some pretty damn good D right there. the key i think would more be his playoff performance. not so much leading them, but turning on his play when he had to. that team was led by Nick Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk (and Z in the playoffs big time) though hands down.
kalbrecht17
Hallock , MN
Total Comments (188)
Where did you get that from? I didn't say that in the comments here?
fvkasm2x
Edmonton, AB
Total Comments (2120)
That is just some bs that Jim is babbling on about in his second argument.
I might pick up on this idea. Quote one person and copy and paste something from a different member in that quote.
MattUSA
Total Comments (2394)
You beat me to the explanation.
MattUSA
Total Comments (2394)
Thank you, sir.
ElevenRingsSTL
Total Comments (2973)
I saw your 157 picks and as much as i would love to see Hendo win, i can't bet on him.
MattUSA
Total Comments (2394)
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