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  • 09/15/2013, 09:23PM ET

Best of the worst and the worst of the best; NFL.

Marlins Fan (156-78-31) vs Mil Town Proud (7-1-2)
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Two part TD: which team does the worst with the most NFL talent, and which team does the best with the least?

Argue the first part in your first argument, the second part in your second, and use the third for final arguments. Closing arguments, if you will.

Team that does the least with the most talent: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

This team is absolutely loaded with talent. When thinking about which team to pick there was only one other team that I even considered for being as talented yet disappointing as the Bucs. I'm not gonna name the other team; that's my opponent's job. You probably know who.

Anyway we have Josh Freeman, a guy with an absolute cannon for an arm as quarterback. Freeman is big and strong, he's semi athletic, he's young, heck he's even black. (just kidding)

Doug Martin killed it last year. Great big play, durable RB.

Vincent Jackson is the best big play WR in football, and his bookend is Mike Williams, another playmaker.

Even the offensive line has big names; Davin Joseph, Carl Nicks.

Defensively the line is stacked; Clayborn, McCoy, Bowers, etc.

Revis and Barron in the secondary.

The Bucs should be WAY better.


Through two weeks, the most talented 0-2 team has to be:

The New York Football Giants

You want talent?

Eli Manning, Victor Cruz & Hakeem Nicks. A capable, if not specatuclar offensive line.

Justin Tuck, JPP, Mark Herzlich and a few former 1st/2nd round picks in the defensive backfield.

This team is loaded with talent, only...

They turned the ball over on their first three possessions against the Cowboys and have turned the ball over 9 times in two games so far.

Eli Manning is on pace for a cool 56 INTs.

In a wide open NFC East, the Giants are digging themselves a hole with their 0-2 start.

The offense is in sad shape with the turnovers and the sad desperation move of signing Brandon Jacobs. And the defense let the Broncos march up and down the field yesterday afternoon.

Commiting 9 turnovers and allowing 38.5 points per game is a good way to squander talent, giving them the edge in this argument.

As for "which team does the best with the least," I will select the Kansas City Chiefs.

More on them in the second argument.

Good Luck, MF.


Thanks Gus, good luck to you as well, sir.

Team that does the most with the least talent: New England Patriots.

The Patriots are a weird team; their reputation as an annual Super Bowl contender is a little dated but at the end of the day we can't say they're not contenders. Every year. So I guess their reputation isn't actually dated; it fits, it just hasn't translated into an actual SB ring in a number of years.

But the point remains that the Patriots are always a competitive team. Playing NE is never an easy challenge and every year you can make a case for the Patriots representing the AFC in the SB.

And why is that?

It sure isn't because of a wealth of talent. Obviously Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of this or any generation. He may retire as the GOAT, I don't know. But beyond Brady the cupboard is pretty bare.

The Patriots do have a couple useful players like Jerod Mayo and Chandler Jones but overall their roster is deficient of talent.

They don't have a consistently good running back. They don't have any good receivers. Tight end is a huge void. The secondary is a mess. No depth, team wide.

Yet they're always really good.


Yes, the Patriots are 2-0, but their wins are far from impressive. A combined 5 points over the Jets and Bills?

Come on now. New England has one of the better offensive lines in the NFL, based on the accolades of Nate Solder, Logan Mankins, and Sebastian Vollmer.

You are correct about the consistently good running back, in part, because they have two quality backs. With Vereen out, expect Ridley to get a ton of press. These Patriots have been in the top 10 rushing in two of the last three years. How does that happen? A good line and good backs.

Defensively, the Patriots are good deep unit.

The Chiefs, after going 2-14 last year have tied their win total already at 2-0.

They played a complete game against Jacksonville, and held off a more talented (at least, more notorious) Cowboys team for win #2.

With what? Defensively, the Chiefs are largely anonymous. Eric Berry and Brandon Flowers headline an otherwise non-descript unit.

Offensively, cast-off Alex Smith is efficiently leading a Chiefs offense that averaged 13.2 points per game.

Talent in KC?

Jamaal Charles and Dwayne Bowe are definitely not equivalent to Tom Brady.

Kansas City is the correct answer


Top ten in rushing doesn't tell the whole story. Ridley is so fumble prone he recently lost his starting job. And then Vereen got hurt. Belichick doesn't trust Ridley, and rightfully so. He's a turnover waiting to happen. I just don't see the depth at RB, partiularly with Vereen out.

And in 2012 the Pats finished 25th in total defense and 23rd in scoring defense. In a division not known for high powered offenses. They play the Jets twice a year, for crying out loud. Not a good defense by any stretch.

Conversely, the Chiefs have plenty of talent on the roster.

The offensive line features studs in Brandon Albert, Rodney Hudson and Eric Fisher, the top pick in the 2013 draft.

Alex Smith is a good QB, regardless of his reputation. There isn't a more underrated QB in the NFL. Add in Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, former 1st rounder AJ Jenkins, the offense in general has tons of talent.

The defense features a pair of 1st rounders in Dontari Poe and Tyson Jackson on the D line, and Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Justin Houston and Akeem Jordan make for a very deep LB group.

Plus Flowers, Berry, and Sean Smith in the secondary.

KC actually underperforms.


Let's recap.

Tampa Bay v New York for underperforming.

I don't think I should even have to explain this one. The Giants offensively, could and should be a handful, with Eli directing Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks, but the problem is between the ears with Eli. Add in the beasts on the Giants front seven and its a no-brainer.

Tampa Bay has a few good players, but overall, there is little beyond Doug Martin and V-Jax. Revis is only entering his third game since rehab, so where he is physically is unknown. Freeman is hot garbage and doesn't deserve mention as an asset.

Now for the Patriots, lets just say they definitely get value for their draft picks.

You have Tom fricking Brady leading a pretty talented team. So their receivers are young, inexperienced, the rest of the roster is fairly impressive.

Draft position is not an absolute guarantee of talent. If so, the clear answer for underperforming would be the Jags, who pick in the top 5 on a yearly basis. Blindly pointing out 1st rounders has no basis unless you show how their talent correlates with draft position.

We didn't hear about this apparent abundance of talent last year as they slogged their way to 2-14.

September 15, 2013  09:40 PM ET

dallas cowboys do the least with the most talent. that's a great team. i'd take romo any day over freeman. defense is better in tampa, but the offense in dallas is loaded. and they still can't make the playoffs.

September 15, 2013  10:28 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

dallas cowboys do the least with the most talent. that's a great team. i'd take romo any day over freeman. defense is better in tampa, but the offense in dallas is loaded. and they still can't make the playoffs.

Post it in the argument section.

Dallas' offensive line prohibits them from being a great offense, in my opinion. Can't run for ****.

September 16, 2013  01:06 AM ET

Stupid Richard Sherman looked like the NFL's best player tonight.

September 16, 2013  01:52 AM ET

You know what I love about the NFL? We never know what to expect.

Thee days everyone are experts. We're all mini GMs with our fantasy football team and we have access to round the clock NFL coverage. We are very informed about pro football, at least when compared to other aspects of life. Seems Lisle football fans study the NFL more than most folks study anything else. People do research about the NFL. Folks spend millions or probably even billions of dollars every year betting on NFL games, and you know at least some of those guys are prepared. Educated. They've done their homework.

But no matter how much time we spend following the NFL, we'll never be the Nate Silver of football. It's impossible.

The NFL is just too unpredictable. As they say, any given Sunday.

It's awesome.

September 16, 2013  04:32 AM ET
QUOTE(#1):

dallas cowboys do the least with the most talent. that's a great team. i'd take romo any day over freeman. defense is better in tampa, but the offense in dallas is loaded. and they still can't make the playoffs.

A very strong possibility NJIMO. Lets look at the Cowboys All-Pro rosters from 2007-present:

Tony Romo
Marion Barber
TO
Jason Witten
Myles Austin
Ware
Ken Hamlin
Terrence Newman
Greg Ellis
Jay Ratliff
Zach Thomas
Anthony Spencer
Flozell Adams
Andre Gurode
Mike Jenkins
Leonard Davis
Mat McBriar
Keith Brookings

September 16, 2013  09:01 AM ET
QUOTE(#5):

A very strong possibility NJIMO. Lets look at the Cowboys All-Pro rosters from 2007-present:Tony RomoMarion BarberTOJason WittenMyles AustinWareKen HamlinTerrence NewmanGreg EllisJay RatliffZach ThomasAnthony SpencerFlozell AdamsAndre GurodeMike JenkinsLeonard DavisMat McBriarKeith Brookings

2007 was a long, long time ago. Hell, Favre was still starting for the Packers.

September 16, 2013  10:47 AM ET

"As for "which team does the best with the least," I will select the Kansas City Chiefs."
-Mil Town Proud

I like how you snuck that one in there before Marlins Fan could get his pick in. I doubt he was going with that one anyway... His pick for doing the most with the least is one that would normally get laughed at simply because they generally do the most with the most... Not gonna still his thunder just in case I'm right...

September 16, 2013  10:54 AM ET

*steal his thunder...

September 16, 2013  11:07 AM ET
QUOTE(#2):

Post it in the argument section.Dallas' offensive line prohibits them from being a great offense, in my opinion. Can't run for ****.

excuses.

September 16, 2013  11:11 AM ET

I'm not sold on KC not having a lot of talent...

6 pro bowlers from last year. They just needed a legit QB and HC.

September 16, 2013  02:16 PM ET
QUOTE(#10):

I'm not sold on KC not having a lot of talent...6 pro bowlers from last year. They just needed a legit QB and HC.

Me either! They've had a lot of top picks lately.

September 16, 2013  04:31 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

"As for "which team does the best with the least," I will select the Kansas City Chiefs."-Mil Town ProudI like how you snuck that one in there before Marlins Fan could get his pick in. I doubt he was going with that one anyway... His pick for doing the most with the least is one that would normally get laughed at simply because they generally do the most with the most... Not gonna still his thunder just in case I'm right...

"Team that does the most with the least talent: New England Patriots."
-Marlins Fan

Boom! Exactly who I was thinking. There's not a 2-0 team out there that should be 0-2 more than the Patriots. Granted, they've only faced the Bills and the Jets, but Tom Brady literally has nothing to work with; Tom Brady goes to the sidelines and prays for his defense to not give up a TD.

September 16, 2013  04:46 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

"Team that does the most with the least talent: New England Patriots."-Marlins FanBoom! Exactly who I was thinking. There's not a 2-0 team out there that should be 0-2 more than the Patriots. Granted, they've only faced the Bills and the Jets, but Tom Brady literally has nothing to work with; Tom Brady goes to the sidelines and prays for his defense to not give up a TD.

They've literally played two of the worst teams in the NFL and won by a combined 5 points.

September 16, 2013  04:49 PM ET

The Patriots?

Wow.

September 16, 2013  04:50 PM ET

Will await further arguments.

September 16, 2013  04:55 PM ET
QUOTE(#13):

They've literally played two of the worst teams in the NFL and won by a combined 5 points.

BUT they're 2-0 with virtually zero experience at WR.

The Bills showed yesterday that they're probably in the top half of the NFL after taking down a Panthers team that had Seattle (arguably the best team in the NFC) against the ropes in week 1.

September 16, 2013  05:08 PM ET
QUOTE(#13):

They've literally played two of the worst teams in the NFL and won by a combined 5 points.

The Bills are not one of the NFL's worst teams. So far the Jets don't appear to be, either.

Regardless you're focusing only on this season. I think the Patriots have proven they can do "more with less" over the last decade plus.

September 16, 2013  05:23 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

The Bills are not one of the NFL's worst teams. So far the Jets don't appear to be, either.Regardless you're focusing only on this season. I think the Patriots have proven they can do "more with less" over the last decade plus.

I firmly disagree. May have been true when they won their last Super Bowl, but its definitely not true today.

September 16, 2013  05:28 PM ET
QUOTE(#16):

BUT they're 2-0 with virtually zero experience at WR.The Bills showed yesterday that they're probably in the top half of the NFL after taking down a Panthers team that had Seattle (arguably the best team in the NFC) against the ropes in week 1.

WR is but one unit on offense, and a unit that can greatly benefit from an All-Time great QB.

Defensively, the Patriots are, at worst, average. The numbers look worse than they are because teams are usually playing from behind against them and racking up yards.

 
September 16, 2013  07:04 PM ET

Vincent Jackson is the best big play WR in football

Did Calvin Johnson have his name legally changed to "Vincent Jackson"? I must have missed that.

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