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  • 09/27/2013, 09:41AM ET

Rank the best careers MLB, last 20 years.. (You can use steroid users)..

HighwayCrossingFrog (175-852-64) vs Argos. (184-101-29)
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5
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Lets just do the elite..


Sluggers
1. Bonds
2. Pujols
3. Ken Griffey..
4. McGwire
5. Big papi..
6. Manny Ramirez
7. A-rod
8. Sosa

Starters
1. Clemens
2. Randy Johnson
3. Pedro Martinez..
4. Maddux
5. Glavine
6. Smoltzie
7. Schilling..
8. Petite


Relievers
1. Rivera
2. Wagner
3. Hoffman..


So since 1993...

Batters
1. Bonds
2. Albert Pujols
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Ken Griffey
5. Manny Ramirez
6. McGwire
7. Sosa
8. Vladdy

So A-Rod up 4 spots. Manny up one spot. Vladdy over Ortiz.



Starters
1. Pedro
2. Randy Johnson
3. Maddux
4. Clemens
5. Glavine
6. Schilling
7. Smoltz
8. Halladay

Really my main changes here are Pedro #1, and Clemens below Randy and Maddux. Then Halladay over Pettitte.

Pedro is freaking Pedro!

Clemens had a 3.35 ERA starting in 1993, compared to Randy's 3.14 and Maddux's 3.08 (Pedro 2.95!) Both pitched more than Clemens too (Randy 3286 IP, Maddux 3566.1, Clemens 2884.2). Randy struck out a ridiculous 10.96 batters per 9, while Maddux just had control of every game, and pitched so much more than Clemens.

Halladay has a lower ERA (3.38-3.86), more K/9 (6.9-6.6), lower BB/9 (1.9-2.8), a better WHIP (1.178-1.352), way more CG (67-25), and was just more dominant. Halladay has 2 Cys, and finished 2nd twice, and had votes 7 times. Andy never won a Cy, and only had votes 5 times. Halladay also had sub-3.00 ERAs 6 times!

Relievers: No change.


I'll give you Holliday over petite..
And vlad Guerrero is a decent addition..

Clemens vs Pedro..
In Pedro's prime, Martinez was better than Clemens..
But Clemens had more longevity and cy young awards than Pedro..
Clemens was still a pretty darn good pitcher until he was 45..
And Clemens had 7 cy young awards to Pedro's 2..
Pedro declined much faster.. By the age of 35, Pedro Martinez career was basically over..
In terms of who had the better career, this really isn't much of a debate..

I'd personally rather have petites career over Hollidays..
Just because of all the big post season games you get to be a part of..
But in terms of who had the better career?
I would give Holliday the nod..
Shame he spent most of his career on bad teams..

Mtc..


Okay, so you agree Halladay over Pettitte, and Vladdy over Papi.


Clemens had the longevity, but we aren't counting pre-1993 stats. Pedro since 1993 had 2819.1 innings, Clemens had 2884.2 innings. So Clemens threw only 65 more innings. But Pedro had over 400 more strikeouts and 10 K/9 to Clemens 8.7, and 0.8 BB less per 9. Not to mention nearly a half a run lower ERA

Maddux and Randy I think were without a doubt better than Clemens, since 1993, as as they pitched a lot more inning, and had a lower ERA, and were just dominant.



The last main change was ARod. I do not understand how you have a man who is 5th all-time in HR, 9th in total bases, 10th in runs, 6th in RBI, and was considered to be one of the greatest players of all-time, right up until a couple seasons ago, and has played his entire career in the last 20 years, and not include him as a top 3 player of the last 20 years.


I gave you Holliday over petite..
Agreed..

All I said about vlad was that he was a decent addition..
But I would rather have big papi over vlad..
Their career numbers are similar..
But big papi was far more clutch than vlad..
Ortiz carried the 04 Red Sox on his back in the play offs..
Something vlad never did in the post season..

Busy today..
That's all I got..


Ortiz: .287/.381/.549 431 HR
Vlad: .318/.379/.553 449 HR

You are right, pretty similar, but Vladdy does have a clear advantage. But what separates them is Vladdy has an MVP, Vladdy had a position, and Vladdy didn't play in one of the most hitter friendly parks. If Guerrero didn't spend his best years playing on cement, and ruin his knees, he would have even been better.

Busy today, that's all I got.

September 27, 2013  11:06 AM ET

the fact I have a two day fishing tourney this weekend is the only reason I don't argue this....

I will wait until the opponent shows you the ere of your ways before posting my llist

September 27, 2013  08:10 PM ET

Clemens only had longevity cause of 'roids, HGH and whatever else he took.

September 28, 2013  10:09 AM ET

It's a farce TD, since steroids are allowed.

Why not have one WITHOUT steroid users?

September 29, 2013  07:52 AM ET
QUOTE(#3):

It's a farce TD, since steroids are allowed.Why not have one WITHOUT steroid users?

Prove who did and did not use.

September 29, 2013  08:06 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Prove who did and did not use.

Understood but we DO know some who did because they confessed or their use was discovered another way.

September 29, 2013  10:40 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

Prove who did and did not use.

Good point. So from now on I'll just consider every player from that era a User until proven otherwise!

September 29, 2013  12:46 PM ET

Excellent point..
We will never know..

September 30, 2013  01:58 AM ET

No big hurt? He was way better than McGwire.

September 30, 2013  01:59 AM ET

How about tony Gwynn? Or Henderson. Baseball isn't just about home runs

September 30, 2013  05:14 PM ET

Maddux should be at the top of these pitching lists.

Most underappreciated player of our generation.

October 2, 2013  12:41 AM ET
QUOTE(#5):

Understood but we DO know some who did because they confessed or their use was discovered another way.

And alot of those guys broke no rules. Or their careers got started during the hayday when everyone was juicing and they had the longevity to outlast them. It's a part of baseball forever, you have to deal with it. You can't ignore Sosa for the juice. If you wanna throw him out for the corked bat and etc. that's another story.

October 2, 2013  12:42 AM ET
QUOTE(#8):

No big hurt? He was way better than McGwire.

This

October 2, 2013  12:42 AM ET
QUOTE(#9):

How about tony Gwynn? Or Henderson. Baseball isn't just about home runs

And most definatley this.

October 2, 2013  12:43 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Good point. So from now on I'll just consider every player from that era a User until proven otherwise!

Shouldn't be up to you or I or anyone else to determine that. You gotta do what we have to do with every other era. Go off of what we know and have seen.

October 2, 2013  05:30 AM ET
QUOTE(#14):

Shouldn't be up to you or I or anyone else to determine that. You gotta do what we have to do with every other era. Go off of what we know and have seen.

Baseball had the chance not to let it be up to everyone but instead chose not to test for years. They failed and so now I and everyone else can view that era however we want.

October 2, 2013  05:32 AM ET
QUOTE(#15):

Baseball had the chance not to let it be up to everyone but instead chose not to test for years. They failed and so now I and everyone else can view that era however we want.

So now it's DTA to me!!!



(Don't Trust Anybody)

*flops quarter to Stone Cold Steve Austin*

October 2, 2013  05:40 AM ET
QUOTE(#16):

So now it's DTA to me!!!(Don't Trust Anybody)*flops quarter to Stone Cold Steve Austin*

Good sir, could you please instruct me in proper quarter flopping technique?

October 2, 2013  05:57 AM ET
QUOTE(#15):

Baseball had the chance not to let it be up to everyone but instead chose not to test for years. They failed and so now I and everyone else can view that era however we want.

That's your right. I'm not arguing that. As long as you judge the era as a whole and don't try to pass judgement on individual players because you believe they may or may not have done something.

Judge them by what they did against their peers. Not "Oh well I think player X was juicing so I am dismissing everything they have ever accomplished but not player Y because I don't think he ever did anything."

 
October 2, 2013  05:59 AM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Good sir, could you please instruct me in proper quarter flopping technique?

Watch any NBA, soccer or Patriots game when Brady is playing.

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