- 09/27/2013, 09:41AM ET
HighwayCrossingFrog said 09/27, 09:41 AM
Lets just do the elite..
3. Ken Griffey..
5. Big papi..
6. Manny Ramirez
2. Randy Johnson
3. Pedro Martinez..
Argos. said 09/27, 12:51 PM
So since 1993...
2. Albert Pujols
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Ken Griffey
5. Manny Ramirez
So A-Rod up 4 spots. Manny up one spot. Vladdy over Ortiz.
2. Randy Johnson
Really my main changes here are Pedro #1, and Clemens below Randy and Maddux. Then Halladay over Pettitte.
Pedro is freaking Pedro!
Clemens had a 3.35 ERA starting in 1993, compared to Randy's 3.14 and Maddux's 3.08 (Pedro 2.95!) Both pitched more than Clemens too (Randy 3286 IP, Maddux 3566.1, Clemens 2884.2). Randy struck out a ridiculous 10.96 batters per 9, while Maddux just had control of every game, and pitched so much more than Clemens.
Halladay has a lower ERA (3.38-3.86), more K/9 (6.9-6.6), lower BB/9 (1.9-2.8), a better WHIP (1.178-1.352), way more CG (67-25), and was just more dominant. Halladay has 2 Cys, and finished 2nd twice, and had votes 7 times. Andy never won a Cy, and only had votes 5 times. Halladay also had sub-3.00 ERAs 6 times!
Relievers: No change.
HighwayCrossingFrog said 09/27, 03:46 PM
I'll give you Holliday over petite..
And vlad Guerrero is a decent addition..
Clemens vs Pedro..
In Pedro's prime, Martinez was better than Clemens..
But Clemens had more longevity and cy young awards than Pedro..
Clemens was still a pretty darn good pitcher until he was 45..
And Clemens had 7 cy young awards to Pedro's 2..
Pedro declined much faster.. By the age of 35, Pedro Martinez career was basically over..
In terms of who had the better career, this really isn't much of a debate..
I'd personally rather have petites career over Hollidays..
Just because of all the big post season games you get to be a part of..
But in terms of who had the better career?
I would give Holliday the nod..
Shame he spent most of his career on bad teams..
Argos. said 09/29, 05:30 PM
Okay, so you agree Halladay over Pettitte, and Vladdy over Papi.
Clemens had the longevity, but we aren't counting pre-1993 stats. Pedro since 1993 had 2819.1 innings, Clemens had 2884.2 innings. So Clemens threw only 65 more innings. But Pedro had over 400 more strikeouts and 10 K/9 to Clemens 8.7, and 0.8 BB less per 9. Not to mention nearly a half a run lower ERA
Maddux and Randy I think were without a doubt better than Clemens, since 1993, as as they pitched a lot more inning, and had a lower ERA, and were just dominant.
The last main change was ARod. I do not understand how you have a man who is 5th all-time in HR, 9th in total bases, 10th in runs, 6th in RBI, and was considered to be one of the greatest players of all-time, right up until a couple seasons ago, and has played his entire career in the last 20 years, and not include him as a top 3 player of the last 20 years.
HighwayCrossingFrog said 09/30, 11:31 AM
I gave you Holliday over petite..
All I said about vlad was that he was a decent addition..
But I would rather have big papi over vlad..
Their career numbers are similar..
But big papi was far more clutch than vlad..
Ortiz carried the 04 Red Sox on his back in the play offs..
Something vlad never did in the post season..
That's all I got..
Argos. said 10/01, 03:15 PM
Ortiz: .287/.381/.549 431 HR
Vlad: .318/.379/.553 449 HR
You are right, pretty similar, but Vladdy does have a clear advantage. But what separates them is Vladdy has an MVP, Vladdy had a position, and Vladdy didn't play in one of the most hitter friendly parks. If Guerrero didn't spend his best years playing on cement, and ruin his knees, he would have even been better.
Busy today, that's all I got.
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