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  • November 05, 2007 11:06 PM ET

You stated in another TD that Joe Torre is not a top five manager/coach...

The Big Cat (35-64-3) vs thejetstolehome: hiatus? (20-9-4)
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I'll let you go first because I think everyone knows very well that Torre is an elite manager and coach and is definitely within the top five. It's not just because he was a Yankee; I'll start there.


While I love Joe Torre as a person, I do not love him as an on field manager. Yes, he's great in the clubhouse and manages the press and egos very well but his on field decisions are pretty much run of the mill.

His managerial record obviously shows an elite manager but it needs a closer inspection. Before coming to the Yankees, Joe posted the following carrer recrods with his previous teams:

Atlanta: 257-229 (.529)
New York (NL): 286-420 (.405)
St.Louis: 351-354 (.498)

So that puts his career WP w/o the Yankees of .470. That's average--painfully, horribly, realistically average. So, who really made who? Did Joe Torre make the Yankees or did the Yankees make Joe Torre? It's definitely the latter. It wasn't until he came to a team with unlimited resources that put out a virtual all-star team for him every year.

As for current managers I'd put ahead of him, I think I'd take: LaRussa, Pinella, Francona, Cox, and a tie between Manuel and Hurdle.


Joe Torre is an awesome coach/manager. This is not about liking or hating a New York team. It's about liking and respecting a man for what he has done with and for players and a tough organization. Not many people can and/or are willing to work for the Yankee organization. Obviously, it's not an easy one to work for. It's probably the toughest. Money can get you raw talent but that's it. I takes a man like Joe Torre to bring it all together. Joe torre was a great player. He was and/is a great manager and coach. I look forward to him being successful with the Dodgers. Joe Torre made the Yankees the dynasty that they are. Without him they would have gone absolutely nowhere. He's definitely within the top five!


Joe Torre is a great man, yes, but an average manager. Let's be honest, take the media and egos of big name players out of the equation, and one of us could have sat in the dugout for the last tweleve years and managed the teams Joe Torre had.

He did not make the Yankees a dynasty--George Steinbrenner's wallet did. They were set up in 1994 and 1995 and after Showalter was fired, Torre filled in, sat back and watched the team play. What he had wasn't raw talent like the Yankees' rookies now. For the majority of his time with the Yankees, Joe Torre had bonafide superstars who would make any manager look great.

Without A-Rod, Jeter, and Posada this year, the Yankees would've gone no where. Without Joe Torre, they probably would have had the same record. Torre is a manager who picks favorites--Proctor and Vizcaino come to mind over the last 2 seasons--and overuses them, thus, not putting his team in the best position to win.

As a person and in the clubhouse, Joe Torre is top five and arguably number one. However, encompassed with on the field tactics and strategy, he is merely average. Will he do well with the Dodgers? Who knows? (cont in comments.)


There are too many Yankee hater out there for me to have a fair debate. As I said, money may buy you "raw" talent but it takes someone very special to develop that talent and make it work.

Torre had to contend with more egos and attitudes than any other coach over the last plus decade or so.

Keep in mind Toree did not have compplete control over players and player rosters. That's where Cashman came into the picture. Joe worked with what he was given and he did it better than anyone else out there.

Please enlighten all of us and tell us how his filed tactics and strategies were off!


I'm a die-hard Yankee fan and know that Joe Torre was nothing more than an average manager. Look at his record before coming to the Yankees: it was below .500. It was not until he came to the Yankees that he turned into a winner. Coincidence? I think not.

Yes, Torre had to deal with egos and the vicious media and he was great at that--but if you look at the WHOLE picture, including on the field actions, he was not anything special. He consistently over used and mis-managed his bullpen and always put stars in the place of hot hitters (see: Melky Cabrera getting shafted in 2006).

Brian Cashman gave Joe Torre what could constitute an AL All Star team. Some signings may have been not so great on the pitching side, but in terms of hitters, the Yankees put out the best lineup in baseball year in and year out. Any one of us could figure out that batting lineup and send it out each day. You say he "worked with what he was given" as if he were managing some team in the Carolina Leauge when in reality he was working with THE YANKEES. He had the most gung-ho, money spending owner in baseball's history and an all star team at his disposal. (cont in comments)

Comments (63) Add A Comment

November 5, 2007  11:12 PM ET
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i'll get to this tomorrow morning around 11:15.

November 5, 2007  11:30 PM ET
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Top 5 current or all-time?

All-time: No way.
Current: It's close.

He's a great manager of egos. He's not a great in-game strategist.

Comment has been removed
November 6, 2007  12:41 PM ET
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Torre will show next year he is top 5 cuz he will take a perennial under achieving Dodger team to the World Series. Nobody thinks the Rockies are going back do you?

Comment has been removed
November 6, 2007  12:42 PM ET
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Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

Comment has been removed
November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

Comment has been removed
November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

Comment has been removed
November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

 
November 6, 2007  12:43 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Can you stop sending me freaking emails you idiot from Long Island!

Here is the email when i asked him nicely to stop sending emails to me.

What a freaking azzhole dink! I think this guy's wife has kicked him out.

You're a bit strange. How can you get 'spam" on a website such as FanNation, where the objective is to share information, throwdown, get opinions and make comments? You can keep voting against me. That won't stop me from sending out FanMail. My suggestion is that if you don't like it, leave! You could also choose to ignore it and simply hit a delete button bt in some strange way, you like it...

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