G.O.A.T. said 11/23, 02:32 PM
The rules for this throwdown are posted here: http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/77103
The main idea, though, is to create a team using players from 1982 on. I chose the Hawks and Cassidy chose the Kings.
C- Dikembe Mutombo- In his 5 years with Atlanta he averaged 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 3 blocks per game. He is considered by some to be the greatest shotblocker in recent memory.
PF- Kevin Willis- In 10 years with the Hawks he averaged 15 points and 11 rebounds. He and Dominique Wilkins (see below) combined to actually WIN in Atlanta, something that has been absent as of late.
SF- Dominique Wilkins- "Nique", as he is called, averaged 27 points and 7 rebounds per contest and is widely known as a top 3 dunker to ever live.
SG- Jason Terry- In 5 seasons with Atlanta he averaged 16 points, 6 assists, and 2 steals per game while shooting 36% from deep and 84% from the charity stripe.
PG- Mookie Blaylock- This is the guy who shut down everyone else's best guard. He was a great defensive stopper in the 80s for seven seasons with the Hawks. He averaged a solid 15 points, 7 assists, and 2 and a half steals in those years.
Secret Squirrel said 11/23, 11:45 PM
C-Mark Eaton-He is 7' 4" tall, and in his 12 seasons with the Jazz, he made one all-star team, and was the defensive player of the year twice. He averaged 3.5 blocks, 8 rebounds, and 6 points per game. He was not an offensive guy though...
PF-Karl Malone-Was the MVP twice, made 11 1st team All-NBA teams, 14 time All-Star, and in 1996 was named one of the 50 greatest NBA players. He averaged 25 points, 10 rebounds per game. And he was on the Dream Team...
SF-Adrian Dantley-Spent 7 years in Utah, but for our purposes, he only spent 4 years there...He averaged 26+ ppg, 5+ rebounds, and just under 4 assists per game in his stint there. He was a key part of those teams from 1979-1986...
SG-Darrell Griffith-Dr. Dunkenstein was a good player, spending his entire career in Utah. He averaged about 16 ppg during that time, and also has had his number 35 retired by the Jazz...
PG-John Stockton-What can I say, except that he is one of the greatest PGs in NBA history. He averaged a double-double over his career, with 13.1 ppg, and 10.5 apg. The NBA record holder for career assists and steals. He was just amazing, it sucks I only was realizing about 3 seasons he played in...
G.O.A.T. said 11/24, 09:30 AM
Obviously, your entire team is based around Stockton and Malone. But Griffith doesn't match up with Jason Terry. They both averaged 16 a game but Griffith only averaged 2 assists per game while Terry was putting up 6 a game. Both averaged 3 rebounds per contest BUT Terry averaged one more steal per game. Griffith shot 33% from deep compared to Terry's 36%. Also, Griffith shot a paltry 70% from the line.
Most people would probably agree that the weak part of your team is Mark Eaton. But, first, he only played 11 seasons. Now, compare Eaton's 6, 8, and 3 numbers to Mutombo's 12, 13, and 3. It's pretty obvious who has the advantage. Dikembe was the Defensive Player of the Year FOUR times and Eaton got the DPOY twice. But Mutombo was also an 8-time all-star. Eaton was selected once for the all-star game.
Here's the comparison between Dantley and Wilkins. There stats are quite similar (except for the rebounding edge to Nique) so I went to other things:
Scoring Titles- 2 to 1 Dantley
All-NBA- 7 to 2 Wilkins
All-Star- 9 to 6 Wilkins
The only big difference between them is All-NBA selections in which Nique is easily the greater. It's a tough call between them though. More later
Secret Squirrel said 11/24, 11:57 AM
I was under the impression we could only use the years they played with that team, but okay, I can still do this...
I might be wrong, but I think that when he was in Atlanta, Terry was a PG, which would explain the discrepancy in assists. Griffith may shoot worse from 3, but his normal FG% was 46% to Terry's 44.7%. (I know it isn't a huge difference, but it is a difference.) As well as shooting 70% from the line, Griffith only averaged 2.8 FTAs per game.
As a Hawk, Mutombo was a 2 time DPOY, 3 time All Star. Eaton got all of his stats as a Jazz. (I don't know how to say that...) Eaton has the height advantage, but I think it would be a good matchup.
Oddly enough, both AD and Nique hold NBA free-throw records, AD has the most in one game, Nique has the most consecutive in one game. Jacques may be a HOFer, but Dantley would've had a 3rd scoring title in 1982 (30.7 ppg, in 22 games) except he tore ligaments in his wrist. That 3rd title would've put him over the top, i believe, but right now I think it's a push...
G.O.A.T. said 11/24, 12:18 PM
Yes, I was using stats from their years with the Hawks. I just switched because almost all of your guys spent their entire careers with the Jazz (3 or 4 of them I think) and it would be easier to just go by careers.
When Jason Terry was in Atlanta he was a PG/SG. He kind of played both depending on who was out there for the Hawks. If Mutombo and Eaton matched up I think both would have trouble scoring on the other but, to me, Dikembe is a more well-rounded player. Eaton is all-defense, all-the-time. Mutombo did average 12 points a game in his years with the Hawks. It's not a lot, but compared to Eaton's 6 it kind of matters.
Here's something else: Kevin Willis pulled down more rebounds per game than Karl Malone and had a 3-inch height advantage over the Mailman.
Next on the agenda...you can't just say he "would have won another scoring title". You never know what could have happened. Here, I'll go position-by-position:
PG- Stockton over Blaylock but not by as much as people think.
SG- Terry over Griffith
SF- Tough to say either way; MAYBE a slight edge to Nique
PF- Malone by a little bit.
C- Mutombo over Eaton
It's a tough call but I'd go with the Hawks anyday.
Secret Squirrel said 11/24, 12:57 PM
Yeah, I know I can't say that, but whatever. It was 11 in the morning, I just got up.
The thing is, since Eaton is all defense all the time, he could shut down Mutombo's little bit of offense. Motumbo would pull down more rebounds though.
Yes, Willis rebounded and blocked more shots than Karl, but I haven't seen a better all-around player than the Mailman for a while. He could beat you in the post, and step back for a mid-range J, while rebounding well.
Here's how I see it...
PG-Stockton>Blaylock
SG-Terry>Griffith (slightly)
SF-Dantley=Wilikins (If you just compare their stats, other than rebounding, they are pretty much equal, edge could go either way, depending on what you look at...)
PF-Malone>Willis
C-Eaton=Mutombo (again, edge could go either way)
Comments (9)
Well, to be clear, I'm not Cassidy...
we are only using 5 guys?
Secret Squirrel | 11/23/07, 03:26 PM
Report Offensive CommentSorry, I just copy and pasted my argument and forgot to proof it.
And, yes, we're using 5.
G.O.A.T. | 11/23/07, 04:26 PM
Report Offensive CommentGOAT gets the vote just cuz its harder to think of an all hawks team than an all jazz team (2 of the 5 positions are givens)
{thereal}slimshaney | 11/23/07, 11:57 PM
Report Offensive CommentLove the freaking Squirrel Avatar's but the Jazz woulda owned those Hawks
djroxalot loves TD'ing | 11/24/07, 12:17 AM
Report Offensive CommentOwned them? I don't know about that. It would definitely be a good game though.
G.O.A.T. | 11/24/07, 09:32 AM
Report Offensive CommentI really think you have to give the edge Mutombo over Eaton. I mean, in a game Mark Eaton would be invisible on the offensive end.
G.O.A.T. | 11/24/07, 01:07 PM
Report Offensive CommentVote to GOAT.
PHIMan is on vacation | 11/24/07, 10:46 PM
Report Offensive CommentI would pay money to see a Mutombo vs. Eaton low-post battle...if for no other reason than the fact we couldn't possibly pair two culturally opposite people than Eaton and Mutombo. What a league! I think I missed out on a lot by not getting to fully appreciate the glory days of the NBA...
Ombudsman Cooz | 11/25/07, 07:26 AM
Report Offensive CommentI know what you mean, Cooz. If only you could go back and watch the Magic vs. Bird battles or Jordan against the Jazz (you probably saw that although I was like 5). I'm just hoping a great new rivalry will spring up.
G.O.A.T. | 11/25/07, 10:43 AM
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