Throwdowns > Completed
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- December 04, 2007 09:56 AM ET
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T-fo is Medium Pimpin' said 12/04, 09:56 AM
Keep in mind, I'm not saying they will be beaten, but I think the game last night exposed two **** in the Patriots armor:
1. Keep Brady and Co. off the field. You can run on the Pats defense. You can also throw the short intermediate pass on them (like Philly game). That's because their linebacker corps are older and a bit slow. McGahee was chewing up big chunks of yards. Until recently, the run D had not been exposed because so many teams were playing from behind early and forced to pass. Grind out some long drives.
2. Hit Brady. Hit him early and often. Give him that little shove after he releases the ball. He hates contact. You can see it gets in his head somewhat and gets him yelling at officials and even his protection. Go back and watch the tape again, he tends to hurry his passes in the plays following a hard hit.
Can the Steelers do it? I dunno. On paper they have the elements...a strong pass rush and a quick running back, but neither element, particularly Parker has been very strong lately. We won't know until gametime if Pittsburgh has just been playing down at the level of their competition or are legit...but at least the pieces are in place.
Big Ben68 said 12/04, 10:55 AM
First of all, this is a strategy to defeat ANY offense no matter how strong or weak. When you can pressure and hit a QB as well as keep that offense off the field it will be a strategy that cannot put down any team. Even pressuring the receivers can help to shut down an offense if you are unable to put a decent amount of pressure upon a QB. As a defensive player my job (at least as a pass rusher) is to hit the QB or deflect his passes if I???m not able to reach him. The Ravens were able to do both and so were the Colts as well as Eagles. There is no TRUE blueprint that any team has revealed to beat the Patriots. All they???ve done is show ways to better do so. All D-Coordinators know when playing the Patriots they need to either shut down all of Brady???s targets, put immense pressure on him (& shut down at least two of his big targets), or just play some crazy blitz schemes and shut down Moss (a la the Eagles). These past two games (in my opinion) have revealed nothing but the age old fact that when you pressure a QB you can control an opponent???s offense. The Colts for EX: when Manning lost BOTH of his tackles and was getting hit more than normal he played horribly (6 INTs vs Chargers).
T-fo is Medium Pimpin' said 12/04, 11:09 AM
First you didn't address my primary argument. The Pat's are vulnerable against the run. I believe that too many teams, early on, game planned the Pats for a shooting match. That proved to be a recipe for disaster.
What is need is a game plan that exposes the weakness of the Pat's D. A combination of hard inside running like the Ravens pulled off last night, and short to intermediate quick hitters that also exploit the middle. Look Junior Seau and Teddy Ballgame have had great careers, but they are not close to what they were. Use that to your advantage. The Pat's secondary is a strength...don't test it...likewise, don't try and sit back and wait for a play to develop, the pass rush is too strong for slow-to-develop plays to succeed regularly. A "big strike" game plan will fail. Take what the defense gives you, even if it is 4 or 5 yards at a time.
I'll use my last argument on the defensive gameplan.
Big Ben68 said 12/04, 12:15 PM
Here???s the thing though: when you come in and look at that 38 PPG you KNOW you HAVE to get points on the board and the fact that the Patriots can score on both long drives as well as quick strikes you are in trouble. You are forced out of running the ball early in the game. Game-planning either way has not given a Patriot???s opponent a win, but stats cannot be denied; although McGahee was able to run well, it didn???t give his team the win when they needed 1st downs in the waning minutes of the 1st quarter. So, it shows that the Patriots can shut down the run when they need to. The problem with not testing the secondary is that you MUST test it in order to keep up as showcased last week and every week. To stay in stride with the Patriots you are going to have to let go of the run. I must reiterate the fact that this is NOT some ???special??? blueprint to beat the Patriots, this is just smart, solid football intelligence. As a DC I KNOW I have to pressure the QB EVERY single game not just against a team that people are saying a ???blueprint??? has been discovered, when in fact nothing has been discovered. I still don't see how this is some "special" blueprint to beating JUST the Pats.
T-fo is Medium Pimpin' said 12/04, 12:44 PM
OK, I'll use the more traditional term, "GAME PLAN". Look, the Pats are the strongest team I have seen in years, but they do have a couple of flaws. That's what I was trying to point out. AND if anything, the Eagles and Ravens have said loud and clear, STOP looking at that 38 ppg average...you CAN hang with these guys.
Now, you say let go of the run. That was ultimately the Ravens undoing last night. Two examples...the really bad interception Boller threw when the Ravens were down in field goal range. To beat the Pats you HAVE to come away with points there. The other example was in the fourth quarter the Ravens had a 3rd down and less than 2 that would have been a coffin nail if converted. Play call was a short, incomplete pass....punt...ballgame. Stick with what works.
And when I say hit Brady, I'm not talking about the obvious. Of course you try and sack every QB. I'm saying Brady flat out loses his poise when he's hit. Guys like Favre bounce up and pat the guys helmet. I don't know what the QB equivelent of "alligator arms" is, but Brady's throws get far more eratic when he's been pinballed a few times. Even Achille's had his heel.
Big Ben68 said 12/04, 03:28 PM
This TD is about there being some "blueprint" to defeating the Patriots being revealed. I think there is no discovery here other than the fact that you MUST have absolutely perfect execution. The Ravens would have been victorious had they NOT committed so many defensive penalties, but those mistakes and perfect examples of POOR execution cost them the game (as well as one of the BIGGEST upsets in history). Here's a question for you: if Brady loses his poise when he is hit, then WHY was he able to lead his team down the field when it counted most? Exactly, he doesn't lose poise, but he may not be as willing to sit back and search for targets, no QB is going to when they get hit almost every play. Take Thursday's game for EX: the Cowboys continued to apply pressure to Brett Favre, it resulted in TWO INTs and his worst game of the season. The examples you provide of the Ravens is their decision to NOT run. If they have a 3rd & 2 they should be confident in McGahee to go out and pick up those yards; obviously they were not. The Boller INT comes back to poor execution and they were NOT in FG range as they were around midfield as he threw it into a crowd of Pats instead of checking off.
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Carmella Garcia

Comments (38) Add A Comment
What is there to debat t-fool?
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3493)
Hold on for about 15 minutes...
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
Big Head Bonds...I won't make my opponents arguments for him, but just because you accepted then declined the TD, doesn't mena there are not points to be made either way.
Stop worrying about protecting your TD record. Fool.
T-fo is Medium…
Go (Insert Your Team Here)!, MD
Total Comments (4363)
"...strategy that cannot put down any team." -Big Ben68
That should be: CAN put down any team.
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
People always talk about the "blueprint" for beating the Pats. Pressuring the QB and running on a team, shutting down WRs and running on a team are not new. It'c called playing good football.
PhillyFan
Medford Lakes, NJ
Total Comments (1254)
There is no blueprint. Why did Madden ever have to say that??? The Patriots can and do adjust. That's why they are great. Did you nortice that Maroney and Falk ran a bit more last night? I'm not saying that's why the Pats won but I am saying that the Pats can and will mix it up. BB, gets the vote!
The Big Cat
Long Island, NY
Total Comments (849)
I'll be back in about 35 minutes...sorry for the delay.
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
"People always talk about the "blueprint" for beating the Pats. Pressuring the QB and running on a team, shutting down WRs and running on a team are not new. It'c called playing good football." -PhillyFan
THAT is EXACTLY what I'm saying...
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
maybe blueprint is the wrong term, but what t-fo way sayings is beating there soft receivers (except welker) and hitting brady in the mouth, because he cries every time he gets hit gives you the best opportunity to win.
b-dawk
Lakeland, FL
Total Comments (622)
i really think the steelers have the last legit shot at beating the pats. not saying that just cuz i'm a steelers fan. our d is better the baltimore, indianapolis, and phillys. if troy is back in action (which i pray to god he is) our defense will be at full strength. we'll be able to blitz off the edges with harrison and smack brady every play. the steelers are, no doubt, going to have to play a perfect game. the way they've been playing the last few weeks they are either going to pull of the upset or get blown out.
steelcurtain32
Apollo , PA
Total Comments (502)
Exact same formula for beating Peyton Manning. Keep him off the field and knock him on his tailend when he's out there. But now two teams have done it to Brady....and both have lost.
Gruden misses Brandi…
Elizabeth, CO
Total Comments (6045)
Gruden...you are dead on...but...neither of those teams can be considered among the elite this year, but if a talented team comes along and plays with their hair on fire like the Ravens last night, the Pats can be had.
T-fo is Medium…
Go (Insert Your Team Here)!, MD
Total Comments (4363)
"maybe blueprint is the wrong term, but what t-fo way sayings is beating there soft receivers (except welker) and hitting brady in the mouth, because he cries every time he gets hit gives you the best opportunity to win." -b-dawk
Um, you do understand that pressuring ANY QB and shutting down receivers will nullify MOST offenses and cause the better ones to become less effective.
"i really think the steelers have the last legit shot at beating the pats. not saying that just cuz i'm a steelers fan. our d is better the baltimore, indianapolis, and phillys. if troy is back in action (which i pray to god he is) our defense will be at full strength. we'll be able to blitz off the edges with harrison and smack brady every play. the steelers are, no doubt, going to have to play a perfect game. the way they've been playing the last few weeks they are either going to pull of the upset or get blown out." -steelcurtain32
Yeah, the way they've been playing the last three weeks says they will get blown out. The way they've played the entire season says they will be able to keep up for awhile, but fade away as the game moves along.
"Exact same formula for beating Peyton Manning. Keep him off the field and knock him on his tailend when he's out there. But now two teams have done it to Brady....and both have lost." -John Gruden
It is the exact same formula for beating any QB not Just Manning or Brady. If you keep a strong offense off the field it forces the defense to play longer and they can't score as many points. The Ravens and Eagles were able to and still lost, so there is no blueprint, there is only good football...
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
Big Head Bonds...I won't make my opponents arguments for him, but just because you accepted then declined the TD, doesn't mena there are not points to be made either way.
Stop worrying about protecting your TD record. Fool.
T-fo | 12/04/07
My unspoken point was DUH. Thats how you beat any team. What was there to disagree on? I could do exactly what bigben did but I wanted no part of an easy td stolen from a chronic dummy.
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3493)
I was not thinking about my record man. I was worried about people getting on me for beating up handicaps.
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3493)
I think THIS gameplan would be a better blueprint than normal football decisions and planning like pressuring the QB, shutting down WRs, and running the ball.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/071203&am p;sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
That's not how you beat any team. Some teams sell out the run, like the Vikings for example, forcing you into a mostly passing attack. Some quarterbacks are easier to beat by disguising looks in the secondary and getting picks.
T-fo is Medium…
Go (Insert Your Team Here)!, MD
Total Comments (4363)
BUT it is a BASIC gameplan that can be used for ANY team. The Vikings defense is LAST in passing defense so teams GO IN looking to pass.
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
"Some quarterbacks are easier to beat by disguising looks in the secondary and getting picks." -T-fo
That still comes back to pressuring QBs or WRs. When you disguise coverages and give different looks you STILL have to pressure QBs and cover well...
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
"That's not how you beat any team. Some teams sell out the run, like the Vikings for example, forcing you into a mostly passing attack." -T-fo
BUT it is a BASIC gameplan that can be used for ANY team. The Vikings defense is LAST in passing defense so teams GO IN looking to pass. So that example is pretty much null and void as the Vikings defense is great at stopping the run and HORRIBLE at defending the pass. Only the Packers have gotten 100 rushing yards (to my knowledge) to gain 100+ yards against the Vikings defense, but most teams burn them for 260+ passing yards (really, only the Giants were unable to)...
Big Ben68
Total Comments (20933)
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