Throwdowns > Completed
- Views
- 7
- Comments
- 58
- December 19, 2007 10:45 AM ET
- Share
thejetstolehome: hiatus? said 12/19, 10:45 AM
Here we go, this old argument again. Matt Holliday should have been the National League's MVP.
First, we'll look at a pure numbers standpoint: Holliday beats Rollins in avg (.340-.296), obp (.405-.344), slg (.607-.571), OPS (1.012-.875), OPS+ (150-118, 100 is a good OPS+), HR (36-30), RBI (137-91), Runs Created (151-135), walks (63-49), and Win Shares (30-28).
Now, MVP isn't just about the numbers, which Holliday obviously has over Rollins, but it's also about what a player means to a team. There is an argument that Rollins isn't even his TEAM'S MVP (Howard, Utley), much less the league's. Yes, the Rockies have some boppers but they are only helped by Holliday's presence. Brad Hawpe and Garrett Atkins couldn't carry a team on their own, even with help from an aging Todd Helton and a young Troy Tulowitzki. The Phillies would be able to function much better w/o J-Roll than the Rockies would with out Matt Holliday.
Anthony E-is out. said 12/19, 03:29 PM
J-Roll. Had not only the offensive stats to win this, he also had the defensive prowess (Gold Glove winner at SS), and was the emotional leader of a team who endured a horrid start, numerous injuries to seemingly everyone except him, and a huge Mets lead with less than 15 to go. He was one of the most clutch players in the league. Who forgot the Reds game where the Phils were down by 1 in the bottom of the ninth with a runner on first, and J-Roll hit the game tying triple? Or later in that same game where he doubled in the game winning run in extra innings? This is your NL MVP people. For the doubters Yes, Citizen's Bank Park is hitter friendly its a bandbox. But is Matt Holiday at no humidity Coors field any better? Yes Holliday certainly did great in the playoffs and had the stats advantage for the most part, and swept J-Roll's Phillies, taking two of three in Philly. But didn't J-Roll do all he could in that series. He had a HR, a triple, and 4 RBI's in three games. but J-Roll was in the 20-20-20-20 club. everyone forget that? And his 91 RBI batting leadoff? come on people! J-Roll deserved this.
thejetstolehome: hiatus? said 12/19, 04:30 PM
If you want to go by "clutch" stats (which I think are BS) Holliday still wins. With 2out/RISP Holliday wins in BA, OBP, and OPS; in Late/Close Holliday wins BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS. Both had 9 homers that put their team ahead after a tie, but Holliday lead with 38 RBIs. Mattie boy also had 5 more go ahead hits (27) than Rollins (22). And while were on sample-size arguements, let's look at one of the most important innings, the ninth inning. Holliday batted .391/.440/.630/1.070 compared to Rollins' .245/.315/.429/.743. Again, Holliday wins.
While 94 RBIs is great for a leadoff hitter, let me break it down. Jimmy Rollins had 94 RBIs in 778 PAs. The average MLBer with that many PAs has 91 RBIs, which puts Rollins at 3 above average. In contrast, Matt Holliday had 137 RBIs in 713 PAs; the avg. MLBer w/that many drove in 84, putting Holliday at FIFTY THREE above average.
Matt Holliday AGAIN puts up bigger numbers than Rollins and comes through in the "clutch" much more than J-Roll. Holliday is the better player and the more valuable to his team.
Anthony E-is out. said 12/19, 05:34 PM
When Jimmy Rollins was not batting leadoff this team had a rough time. If Holliday is out, yeah you miss him, but both of these teams have enough star power. So I don't think one is more important than the other team to their teams. And J-Roll bats leadoff, which means 9th inning rolls around and you are usually not batting because of the pitcher in the NL that bats before you. But thats not important. How about on Defense! How about some love for the Gold Glove.
And Holliday's stats away from Coors field
H Avg.-.376 OBP-.435 SLG-.722 OPS-1.157
R Avg.-.301 OBP-.374 SLG-.485 OPS-.860
Compared to J-Roll's stats away from Citizens Bank Park
H Avg.-.300 OBP-.336 SLG-.556 OPS-.892
R Avg.-.293 OBP-.352 SLG-.507 OPS-.859
Holiday's dropoffs are huge in every single category. Jimmy Rollins are less significant, because he is more consistent, and his OBP actually increased on the road! The bigger numbers for Holiday are in part because of Coors field. And the pressure that J-Roll faced with the Phillies in the hunt for the playoffs against the Mets?
thejetstolehome: hiatus? said 12/19, 06:01 PM
Did you forget that Holliday and the Rockies were in a torrid chase for the NL Wildcard all season? They had the one game playoff with SD, remember? So who was more influential in their team's run to the playoffs?
In Sept/October, Jimmy Rollins put up a respectable .298/.333/.542/.875. What did my boy do in October? .365/.447/.778/1.236. Wow. That's a 67 pt. adv. for Holliday in BA, 115 in OBP, 233 in SLG, and 361!!! in OPS. When it came down to crunch time, Matt Holliday AGAIN out performed J-Roll by A LOT.
As for the drop offs, Holliday's road averge and on base percentage best J-Roll's TOTAL average and OBP. So while there are drop offs, he still beats Rollins in 2/3 of the "Holy Trinity."
Matt Holliday is a superior player and is much more valuable to his team than Jimmy Rollins.
Anthony E-is out. said 12/19, 06:10 PM
Ok so stats aren't everything. But even if did Holiday achieve 20-20-20-20? Only four players have ever done it, and J-Roll did it this season. And you mean to tell me that all those professionals who voted J-Roll in didn't pay attention to these stats? All those MLB experts had no idea how well Holiday played? Or did they also see that J-Roll predicted his team was the team to beat, he played superior against the Mets, and they won the division. MVP of the league, you might be able to make an argument. But don't tell me that J-Roll wasn't the most important to his team. He was the only starter that spent 0 days on the DL and played through everything, and without his leadership and talent the Phils would not have won that division. And his stolen bases and his fielding were great. I mean the guy won a Gold Glove. The MVP must be well rounded in all areas of their play.
Leaderboard
| Fan | W | L | T | Win % | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | DetroitFan* BS: Start Stanton! | 132 | 9 | 7 | 91.6% |
| 2 | Porkins: Catches bullets | 138 | 13 | 1 | 91.1% |
| 3 | Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD | 52 | 5 | 1 | 90.5% |
| 4 | The Ram | 138 | 17 | 4 | 88.1% |
| 5 | Foosball | 68 | 9 | 2 | 87.3% |
| 6 | Philly-- www.sportsnoise.com | 74 | 11 | 4 | 85.4% |
| 7 | Hyped78 | 113 | 19 | 5 | 84.3% |
| 8 | Dookie: Here We Go Steelers | 117 | 19 | 8 | 84.0% |
| 9 | [The] Coach | 97 | 18 | 5 | 82.9% |
| 10 | BSchwartz07 | 129 | 27 | 6 | 81.5% |
Web's Best Blogs
-
Pro Football Talk
Niners not interested in t.j., williams
October 07th, 2008 ProFootballTalk.com The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Home Rumor Mill…
-
Tirico Suave
Wait, I Want To Make A Joe Six Pack Reference Too
Where Theres Always Plenty Of Schadenfreude To Go Around The Vault Top Ten Most Visited Scrilla…
-
Hugging Harold Reynolds
So You Want to Work in Sports?: Bernie Kim, Graphics Producer, Best Damn Sports Show Period
Things you missed 2008 (1326) October (22) September (120) August (123) July (138) June (131) May…
Truth & Rumors
MOST POPULAR
-
1
Plaxico shows no remorse
- Views
- 4078
- Comments
- 887
-
2
Teixeira good fit for Yankees?
- Views
- 11585
- Comments
- 639
-
3
Burnett won't be on market long
- Views
- 7790
- Comments
- 151
-
4
Warner hasn't ruled out retirement
- Views
- 4052
- Comments
- 58
-
5
Bengals coach on hot seat?
- Views
- 4932
- Comments
- 50
Message Boards
-
MMA > Fight Club
Who will be the new 'face of…
- Views
- 1107
- Replies
- 10
-
NFL > General NFL
Ed Hochuli needs to be FIRED!!
- Views
- 424
- Replies
- 25
-
NFL > General NFL
Taking bids for a new team!!!
- Views
- 28
- Replies
- 2




Marlina Moreno
Christina Parker
Comments (58) Add A Comment
Holliday is an OPS beast.
Porkins: Catches…
The Triangle, NC
Total Comments (9917)
Before I do anything else, I would personally like to congratulate Jimmy Rollins on winning this prestigous award. He deserved it, and had not only the offensive stats to win this, he also had the defensive prowess (Gold Glove winner at SS), and was the emotional leader of a team who endured a horrid start, numerous injuries to seemingly everyone except him, and a huge Mets lead with less than 15 to go. This was one of the most clutch players in the league. Who could forget the Reds game where the Phils were down by 1 in the bottom of the ninth with a runner on first, and J-Roll hit the game tying triple? Or later in that same game where he doubled in the game winning run in extra innings? This is your NL MVP people. For some of you doubters... Yes, Citizen's Bank Park is hitter friendly...ok its a bandbox. But is Matt Holiday at airless Coors field any better? Yes Holliday certainly did great in the playoffs, and swept J-Roll's Phillies, taking two of three in Philly. But didn't J-Roll do all he could in that series. He had a HR, a triple, and 4 RBI's in three games. What else could he really do? He shouldn't individually be punished for his team failing to have playoff success. And did Holliday have the guts to declare his team the team to beat in the NL West? J-Roll was confident in his team and backed up his strong declaration. The pressure that was on him to back this up was enormous. With all due respect to Holliday, Prince Fielder, and even David Wright, this man deserved the MVP and won it. Congrats on a great season J-Roll!
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
yes this comment and argument looks familiar
it is from my blog...
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
get on the main screen darn you
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
yep
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
wow this better get on the main page or i will be furious
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
dang it still not on...
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
LOL. Enjoying Obscurity?
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3494)
no not really
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
ugh let's get this some publicicity....
thejetstolehome:…
Cos Cob/Storrs, CT
Total Comments (3034)
go
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
im trying hard
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
i'll send a fanmail
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
to all of mlb nation
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
that should do it
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
that should do it
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
go on the main screen darn it!!!!!!
Anthony E-is out.
Easton , PA
Total Comments (5393)
rollins deserved it totally alot
Jemima
Total Comments (70)
Matt Holliday also had his best fielding season this year, fielding .990 (league FP of .984) and 7 assists.
the 4X20 is nice, too but Holliday made up for the lack of triples and steals by slugging higher than Rollins and still ended up with 6 more total bases.
again, great TD Anthony.
thejetstolehome:…
Cos Cob/Storrs, CT
Total Comments (3034)
i have a bad feeling that the Phillies homers are gonna come out in droves.
thejetstolehome:…
Cos Cob/Storrs, CT
Total Comments (3034)
Comment
Remember to keep your posts clean. Profanity will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.