FanNation - The Republic of Sport

the "oft-unrealistic expectations" is what sticks out with me.... habs fans always seem to think that team is better then it actually is.... its a young team deep with talented 2nd and 3rd liners... meaning that if the team isnt firing on all cylinders there is no superstar to take the team on his back and drag them out of a slump.... sorry but kovalev and tanguay arent superstars.... probably not even first liners on most teams.... markov is your best player... but its hard for a d-man to carry the offense.... too bad for gainey that the fans dont see this.... hes maybe one move and some time from having a very good club.... but with the masses calling for his head he'll probably say "stick it" and the habs will start over..... be careful what you wish for habs fans, the grass isnt always greener on the other side.

I think that the people of Montreal and Habs fans thought that there was going to be some kind of fairy tale ending to his year beforeit even began, Last years' (surprising) success and the great start the Canadiens got off to also added fuel to this fire. However, this all went to the heads of some of the players. They need more character players on this team. Even when the Habs were a great team, they had muckers to keep the team grounded. Players like Gainey, Skrudland, Mario Trembley and most of the 1993 Cup winner come to mind. Gainey has to find more player like himself and quit thinking Carey Price is the second coming of Patrick Roy. It puts way too much pressure on a young player. As for Sensfan, speak to me when the Sens actually win something in the modern era. This year's version of the Habs looks a lot like last years' version of the Sens, n'est-ce pas?

I don't knw, will he?

*know*

QUOTE(#5):

Originally posted 10:08 AM ET  04.26 by Toronto Maple Leafs

I like Gainey, just give him another year and see what the team does, he has a lot of room to rebuild in one year, 8 UFA's so you can decide who you want to bring back and you have no big contracts tying you down, and you got lots of cap space. Give him a year and see what he does.

i AGREE...i'D GIVE HIM 2 MORE.... what do we have to lose?

popking, i wasnt slamming les canadiens or their fans either... just an honest assessment... every canadiens fan i know... and thats more then a few think that the habs are better then they are.... if any realistic fan looks at the roster and starts comparing it to other teams they would say that they finished around were they should have.... maybe without injuries they take sixth.... as for my grass is greener comment.... sens fans would know all too well what happens when a team is built on speed and skill and a new gm tries to change it and insert grit and size... a few down years.... hence gainey should stay on.

As for the sens, the last time the habs one anything the sens were a expansion team, really the habs havent won squat either while the sens were around.... at least the sens have been there...... as for all of the cups the habs have.... the california golden seals could have won them if they had exclusive right to every french canadian like the habs did

Sensfan:
You can take solace in the fact that the new Sens actually beat the Habs in their first ever game. That was the last year the Habs won the Cup.
As for the fact that Montreal had the territorial right to first choice in Quebec, all teams had exclusive rights to various territories, so I think that people who make that statement are just crying sour grapes. Every team in the Original Six had exclusive right to players within a 50 mile radius of their cities. With this is in mind, Toronto, the self-proclaimsed "Centre of the Hockey Universe" should have had just as much success. The amateur draft in 1963 ended that, but it was reinstated in the 1968-69 year for some reason, and then ended completely in 1970. Montreal found ways to win after they lost that exemption. How many Cups have the Habs won since 1970? The answer is 8, and they lost the Cup to Calgary in 1988-89.
I believe what hurts team from developing dynasties is that there is too many teams, so talent is spread too thin, and free agency, and the salary cap. Anyway, logic can't overcome hatred, so I'll end this disertation, and wish you a nice day!

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 12:01 PM ET  04.26 by sensfan

popking, i wasnt slamming les canadiens or their fans either... just an honest assessment... every canadiens fan i know... and thats more then a few think that the habs are better then they are.... if any realistic fan looks at the roster and starts comparing it to other teams they would say that they finished around were they should have.... maybe without injuries they take sixth.... as for my grass is greener comment.... sens fans would know all too well what happens when a team is built on speed and skill and a new gm tries to change it and insert grit and size... a few down years.... hence gainey should stay on.As for the sens, the last time the habs one anything the sens were a expansion team, really the habs havent won squat either while the sens were around.... at least the sens have been there...... as for all of the cups the habs have.... the california golden seals could have won them if they had exclusive right to every french canadian like the habs did

Sour grapes man. The Sens have UNDERachieved over the last decade, with more supposed talent than anyone in the East - and yet falling every year to a team in the playoffs that finished below them. The Sens have been softer than the Habs ever were - and it ain't gonna get any better.

As for you lumping all Habs fans in with your three friends who cheer for them - don't ever go into any stats related career. You'll fail miserably. I for one knew the Habs overachieved last year - and didn't expect more than a 6th or 7th place finish in the conference this year. They are what they are. They need to get bigger - and bring in some grit to compete with the big bad Bruins and Flyers. But to assert that Kovalev isn't a front line player - you obviously don't know much about hockey. When he's on (see last year) he's one of the better players in the entire league. Sadly, he's not always on (see this year). And Markov is a good player. SO you got one right, much like a broken clock.

As for the territorial issue, the previous poster put that to bed. It gets far too much play- but Toronto should have been even more powerful than the Habs, and FYI, the Habs were allowed TWO players from this territory per year. So no, they didn't have a monopoly on all of Quebec (merely the 50 mile radius surrounding Montreal). And FYI, they've won 8 cups since that stopped. I guess when your team blows out in the first round every year, instead of focusing on what would make them better - like a bully you simply point out the problems with other teams. Sorry about your Napolean complex man. Now get out of here and go cheer for your own team. Troll...

the globe sucks that why its going under

Sorry to offend the Hab fans, but did they really think their team had a chance against the Bruins? The Habs had injuries to their defense and they also finished in eighth place. Don't forget the fact that the Bruins have an unbelievable team this year. It would have been a miracle if the Canadiens could have made it last six games, let alone even win the series. And how do the Montreal faithful salute their team at the end of season? They boo them off the ice! I believe in getting on your team during games when they are underachieving and maybe at the end of a game during the regular season, but at the end of the year you have to give them applause. Montreal is a tough place to play and it will be tough to get any free agents to want to play there. A part of that is because of the fans.

shooter, my post was not to slam the canadians... im never happy to see a canadian team eliminated.... it was the fact that the media and fans(and im not meaning every fan) that at the beginning of the year said that the habs are easily the cup favorite and that gainey built the best team are now the ones calling for his head..... im a realist... i picked montreal around 6th and ottawa 12th.... but to call for gaineys resignation because he didnt meet the lofty expectations is insane... hes a good gm.

And furthermore i WAS the one called out first with the old "what have your sens done".... my reply was the same as the habs... nothing... an accurate answer.

Actually it was unlimited scouting within 50 miles, and montreal also go the first pick out of quebec, montreal had the only territorial right... the others had scouting rights. Out of the 8 cups how many were won with the players that were grabbed before the draft became open... players play for 15-20 years after being drafted.... realistically 2 cups have been won at an equal playing field in the last 20 years.

troll.... most mature thing ive heard since high school

QUOTE:

Originally posted by

Reasons why the Habs imploded:1) Price (horrible horrible year)2) Kovalev (inconsistent)3) Injuries

I agree with your last two.....but the first is more on the Defense then Carey.....But I still think Halak might have a stronger head.

I feel Carey's arm raise was an insult. He isn't as good nor as accomplished as the guy he imitated. And for him to say sometimes booing isn't the right answer.....meaning he may ask for a trade.....the habs faithful won't be hurt nearly as much as we all were when Patty left.

On Gainey though, I think he is a fantastic GM, but a terrible Coach.

Carbs was as well.....he had no fire.......Julien had and has fire....


Wouldn't mind if Celine bought the team, hired Lacroix as GM, then scouted Patty as HC.....

Most HAB fans, myself included, expected us to compete for the Cup. Up until the All Star break , that was evident. Crap happens. Where the unrealistic and insane expectations come from is the french media. Their total idiots.

Didn't we debate this already?

Gainey is 100% class. Come on back to Dallas Bob.

QUOTE(#12):

Originally posted 03:08 PM ET  04.26 by sensfan

Out of the 8 cups how many were won with the players that were grabbed before the draft became open... players play for 15-20 years after being drafted.... realistically 2 cups have been won at an equal playing field in the last 20 years.

OK, here we go again. In the last draft before the territorial rights were once again eliminated the Habs took the following players from Quebec: Marc Tardiff, who ended up being the greatest goal scorer inthe history of the WHA; Michel Plasse, who I believe was famous for his mutton chop sideburns, and Heggie Houle, whose greatest impact was to trade Patrick Roy when he was GM, thus beginning what Hab fan can refer to as "The New Dark Ages." The cornerstones of the 1970's teams were Guy Lafleur, who was drafted, Steve Shutt, who's from Toronto, and a whole bunch of other Anglos like Larry Robinson, Ken Dryden, Pete Mahovolich, etc. About the only Francophones who would have benefited from your arguement post 1970 were Jean Belliveu (sp), who retired in 1971, and perhaps Jacques Lemaire, who may have been drafted in the early 1960's, although I don't know which round, so perhaps he doesn't fall into this category. Otherwise, the post territorial draft Habs werre successful because of great management, great drafting, great trades and playing Don Cherry's Bruins a lot in the playoffs [sorry Bostongm: I couldn't help myself ;)]. Go back and do your homework and check your timelines like any good historian before you make sweeping comments which are popular, but not necessarily accurate.

Seriously. You all sound like complete idiots!

1. Who cares who had territorial rights to players? Bottom line, that's the way it was. Everyone had an equal shot. Montreal won cups, Toronto won some cups, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, New york, they won some cups too. Who cares. No one here is going to change history. Those cups have already been won, and they were all won fair and square. DROP THE ISSUE.

2. Anyone who thinks Bob Gainey is a good GM, is probably right. He can put together a good team. He just needs to get a good coaching staff. Bob Gainey just looks really bad right now because he stuck with his guy (Carey Price), when he probably shouldn't have. I would never say Gainey is a good coach. However, he deserves at least 2 more years to right the ship.

3. If you would like to compare the Montreal Canadiens from 92/93 to present with the Ottawa Senators from 92/93 (their 1st year) to present, fine. It means nothing. Montreal has 1 Stanley Cup, 1 Prince of Wales Trophy, 10 Playoff Appearances, 589-511-113-62 record. Ottawa has 0 Stanley Cups, 1 Prince of Wales Trophy, 11 Playoff Appearances, 572-548-115-57 record. So, as far as I can tell. Montreal has the edge in Stanley Cup Championships and overall record. Ottawa has the edge in Playoff Appearances. I think Montreal wins this one.

Now, before people go making comments about Ottawa being supposedly the most talneted team in the east, and could never win cups... Every Stanley Cup Championship team has 1 thing in common. Solid Goaltending. Ottawa has never had that. For them to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals in 06-07 says a lot.

Anyways, this debate is about Gainey. Should he step down? Not yet.

Gainey should stay. The only problem is that no one has been willing to give Jaro the starting job. He was being bred to take Huet's position, then Price came in with his Wrold Jrs Gold and his Calder Cup, and Gainey's perspective got skewed. If they ever give Halak a fair fight for the starting job I think he'll be a solid keeper, and Price can take a back seat for a year.