FanNation

I guess they all are now going to say once or just twice, Everybody is using the Bill Clinton defense.

Whalers | 12/18/07, 07:10 AM

what is worse? doing it once or more. Once is bad enough. On a dark day long ago you were faced with the decision and the choice you made was to cheat.

Me DUM DUM | 12/18/07, 07:24 AM

AvgJoseph, if they were all as flawless as you it'd be a perfect world. Nice to know there's still someone around who's never made a mistake.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 07:51 AM

I agree Whalers. How come I have this hard time believing that they all used only once? Cest le guerre, I reckon. Just do what Mariano says on the back page of today's Daily News "FESS UP!"

4192jc (Don't give up!) | 12/18/07, 08:13 AM

Just once. Right. And....Captain Kirk is on the Enterprise watching us all right now. This dude just don't want to admit that Canseco was sticking needles in a cheek.

This excuse is as valid as the one......"I was at a party and they were smoking weed around me."

Bond 007 | 12/18/07, 08:26 AM

4192, where do you get that from? A guy gets accused of using once, or 6-8 times, or whatever, and you just make up the rest? You take the evidence presented, throw in some of your own...I don't get it.

At least the Mitchell Report is based on supposed eyewitness testimony. Your "conclusions" about how everyone actually used more than reported are based on....fantasy? Hate? Disgust?

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 08:27 AM

Can't be all just using it once. They must have noticed that it worked. They could deny they used it, an eye witness report is not the same as a positive test. That would be a smoking gun.

Whalers | 12/18/07, 08:34 AM

Here's what we can HONESTLY conclude...

1. The guys in the Mitchell Report are accused of very specific violations based on the supposed first-hand testimony of people who saw them use illicit drugs. Take it at face value...either believe the witnesses, or don't.

2. In 2003, over 100 (unnamed) players TESTED POSITIVE for steroids. So we can conclude that many hundreds (a thousand?) players were probably using over the years.

So we have 80 guys named, probably a thousand unnamed. That's what we know. Any conclusions in between, like suggesting that some guy in the report probably used more than reported, or someone not in the report was an abuser too, is just housewife gossip and/or vacant moralizing. Enough already.

Investigate EVERYONE if you want to find the truth. Every conditioning coach, every trainer, on every team from, say, 1990-2005. There lies the answer.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 08:34 AM

But we won't have positive tests on guys who weren't tested, by a league that wasn't testing. So you can assume everyone will come to confession and tell the truth, or we can subpoena them all and find it the hard way.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 08:35 AM

You know Yankee64 I have tried to talk to you like an intelligent person but I have come to the conclusion you are not working with all your emotions in check. First, when have I ever said anything that was specificaly false or made up any facts? Second, just because some of your heroes have been outed, do not take it on me and others who have their own opinions and thoughts and conclusions on this fiasco and situation. Please, check your emotions at he door and get your facts striaght. If I am proven wrong I wil admit my error and apologize and move on from there but the evidence as I see it presents a totally different case than you appear to see. And if I so choose to disbelieve soemone's apology as disingenous, because they used the word "if", then so be it. I am entitled tomy opionon and you yours. But do not ever attack my veracity nor my integrity. I don't do it to you or anybody else on these threads and I expect he same. Thank you.

PS As I told you last night there are sports writers, including writers for the Boston Globe, who happen to think Andy Pettite is a stand up guy for "apologizing" so you do have company for your opinion. I just happen to think otherwise. Truce or no truce?

4192jc (Don't give up!) | 12/18/07, 08:43 AM

For me it just got way to over the top. From now on for me it will be a frame of mind of: moving forward , from now on, from this point on, type of deal. You can never find out what really happened, it really ruined a huge piece of the sport.

Whalers | 12/18/07, 08:45 AM

And I fully support a full investigation into this very important and large issue and if Congres needs to get involved and these people need legal persuasion then so be it.

4192jc (Don't give up!) | 12/18/07, 08:45 AM

4192, truce. I have no beef with you.

I'm just frustrated by this partial investigation masquerading as the truth. I think steroid use was so widespread as to be nearly universal. And I hate that these 80 guys...some Yankees, some I've never even heard of...are being thrown on the fire as the villains. And when one of them actually DOES fess up, he gets torn up for the "quality" of his apology.

There are too many people taking this whole thing as an opportunity to moralize and make speeches, rather than find out the actual truth. It looks a whole lot more like a political campaign than a criminal investigation.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 08:48 AM

Just get it all past us so that baseball can get on with a better game again...

A FACT | 12/18/07, 08:49 AM

YAnkee64. Truce.
I agree there will be those who spew hate and crucify because that is all they are capable of. I do not conside myself one of these people and I, truly, hope I am not one of these people. My advice is to just freaking ignore their venom.
And the only villains are those players who are liars to theirselves and thus to us the fans. If anyone truly fesses up then we will always forgive and welcome them back to our respective teams with open arms. Hell, NY fans are renowned for that approach. Daryl Strawberry, just to mention one guy, ring a bell?

4192jc (Don't give up!) | 12/18/07, 08:56 AM

tgr, I hope that is the one good thing to come from this fiasco. A decent testing policy would have put an end to this years ago, of course, but Fehr-ig didn't have the guts to make it happen.

We didn't need the Mitchell Report for that; the "investigation" was a classic political a**-covering, that threw a few names to the wolves in the hopes they'd go away and forget the whole thing. Scapegoating, pure and simple.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 08:56 AM

4192, you're no hater. I know that.

But when I see the way this report gets used by so many as a hammer to beat up on the players they don't like, it makes me mad. This partial investigation encourages that sort of playground fingerpointing. The angry mobs waving their torches and pitchforks, and all that.

A comprehensive investigation would name names on EVERY team, and all these loud-mouth fans would be forced to sit down and shut up. Until then, it's just hypocrisy.

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 09:01 AM

Gotta run, gang. Let truthiness ring!!!!!

Yankee64 | 12/18/07, 09:05 AM

I gotta admit it, so did I.

Space Ace | 12/18/07, 09:43 AM

Yankees64 - I never said I never made a mistake - in fact, I've made many.

But this I did it once dance - c'mon. That is probably lawyer talk. I can see someone coaching them saying, hey, if you admit it the public will be on your side. And if you just say you did it once then your image won't take as much of a hit. As opposed to the chronic user. And stand up guys like Pettite and Roberts can get off easier with that response. Its the guys like Bonds and Clemens who will take the huge hits.

I can understand why these guys would try to get an edge. Millions of $ are at stake - lifetime financial security.

I actually applaud anyone who fesses up and admits to it. It does show some courage and honesty.

Without hard evidence and proof everything that is said regarding this entire subject needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Me DUM DUM | 12/18/07, 10:24 AM