The sticking point with Hamels

The Cliff Lee contract is looking like a disaster. You can't repeat this mistake! You trade him and get prospects that will fill in your staff at a much cheaper rate in the near future.

"Every human being wants to know what their value is."

There isn't a professional athlete EVER worth $24M a year

Too much ham in this story. Its baloney.

Trading for him for the rest of the season is one thing but you know your chances of signing him to a long term contract is another thing.

QUOTE(#1):

Originally posted 08:32 AM ET  07.10 by MLB69

The Cliff Lee contract is looking like a disaster.

And the Academy Award for most dramatic performancen on a FanNation thread goes to...

<opens envelope>

MLB69!

Being a huge Phillies fan, the reason why this team lost in the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 was that their lineup. So Amaro goes after Cliff Lee and signs him to a huge deal, not thinking down the road that Hamels was up in 2012??? I love Cliff Lee, but I said at the time the Phils should have used that money to after a LF or RF to replace Werth and an aging Ibanez, along with bullpen help. The Phils never addressed the LF position, and the bullpen has been horrendous this year. Now we are about to let a 28 year old pitcher walk while we have a 32 and 33 year old under contract?? Apparently the Phils didn't have some sort of plan because this team is getting old real quick.

QUOTE(#6):

Originally posted 09:18 AM ET  07.10 by Flyers1986-87

Being a huge Phillies fan, the reason why this team lost in the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 was that their lineup. So Amaro goes after Cliff Lee and signs him to a huge deal, not thinking down the road that Hamels was up in 2012??? I love Cliff Lee, but I said at the time the Phils should have used that money to after a LF or RF to replace Werth and an aging Ibanez, along with bullpen help. The Phils never addressed the LF position, and the bullpen has been horrendous this year. Now we are about to let a 28 year old pitcher walk while we have a 32 and 33 year old under contract?? Apparently the Phils didn't have some sort of plan because this team is getting old real quick.

That ridiculous contract they gave Howard makes Lee's look brilliant.

Perhaps the real reason they had a nice run was a willingness to throw some scratch around, good luck, and a decidedly weak division and league; the latter two certainly seem to be changing.

QUOTE(#1):

Originally posted 08:32 AM ET  07.10 by MLB69

The Cliff Lee contract is looking like a disaster. You can't repeat this mistake! You trade him and get prospects that will fill in your staff at a much cheaper rate in the near future.

Speaking of Cliff Lee, someone on here was opining about how ironic it is that Lee took less money to play for the Phillies in part because he thought that gave him his best shot at a title and here we are, halfway into the season and the Phillies are 37-50 and fourteen games behind the division leading Nationals. [that was a really long sentence, by the way]

I was thinking that if a player wants the best shot a title over a four or five year span, their best bet, sadly, is the Yankees. Other powerhouse teams wax and wain, but the Yankees are always in the thick of it. They've made the playoffs sixteen of the last seventeen seasons and it sure looks like they're going to make it seventeen of eighteen this year.

Say what you want about the Yankees and their payroll, but the Dodgers, Cubs, Mets and Red Sox have proven that it's not just how much you spend, but how you spend it.

I need to take a shower after writing that. I feel so dirty.

Can't blame Hamels one bit for wanting to see what his value is.

I would love to keep Hamels on the team, but I also know the farm system is junk and we need to replenish it so we can have players to fill the position voids we have. Id rather sign Hamels and trade either Hallady or Lee, but they wont have the same value since one is hurt and the other only has 1 win. Loyalty lies more with the team then one player, so Id rather the team do whats best for the long run here, but losing Hamels is big, and I think we need him.

QUOTE(#10):

Originally posted 09:40 AM ET  07.10 by SlinkyRedfoot

I need to take a shower after writing that. I feel so dirty.

How do you think we feel after reading it?

The ironic thing about the Phillies is every year they went out and got another 'ace' pitcher they lost in an earlier round in the playoffs. In 2008 with only Hamels, they won the World Series. In 2009, they traded for Lee and lost in the World Series. In 2010, they traded for Halladay and Oswalt, and lost in the NLCS. In 2011, they brought back Lee and lost in the NLDS. What this shows me (along with the Braves only winning 1 World Series title with Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz) is that the playoffs are a different animal then the regular season. The playoffs are all about needing 1 or 2 great pitchers (who can pitch twice in a series), having a great bullpen (good teams drive up pitch counts, so even the great pitchers are out by the 7th inning in the playoffs), and timely hitting from guys you would never expect (Cody Ross for the Giants in 2010 and David Freese for the Cards in 2011.) The Phillies got caught up too much in having a great pitching rotation and neglected the bullpen and lineup for the last 2-3 years.

Aren't Utley, Blanton and Victorino all FAs? Use that freed up money to lock up Hamels and then go forward with a swiss cheese offense.

Aren't Utley, Blanton and Victorino all FAs? Use that freed up money to lock up Hamels and then go forward with a swiss cheese offense.

QUOTE(#15):

Originally posted 09:53 AM ET  07.10 by Flyers1986-87

The ironic thing about the Phillies is every year they went out and got another 'ace' pitcher they lost in an earlier round in the playoffs. In 2008 with only Hamels, they won the World Series. In 2009, they traded for Lee and lost in the World Series. In 2010, they traded for Halladay and Oswalt, and lost in the NLCS. In 2011, they brought back Lee and lost in the NLDS. What this shows me (along with the Braves only winning 1 World Series title with Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz) is that the playoffs are a different animal then the regular season. The playoffs are all about needing 1 or 2 great pitchers (who can pitch twice in a series), having a great bullpen (good teams drive up pitch counts, so even the great pitchers are out by the 7th inning in the playoffs), and timely hitting from guys you would never expect (Cody Ross for the Giants in 2010 and David Freese for the Cards in 2011.) The Phillies got caught up too much in having a great pitching rotation and neglected the bullpen and lineup for the last 2-3 years.

Pitching wins championships. Except when it doesn't.

QUOTE(#1):

Originally posted 08:32 AM ET  07.10 by MLB69

The Cliff Lee contract is looking like a disaster. You can't repeat this mistake! You trade him and get prospects that will fill in your staff at a much cheaper rate in the near future.

Who would trade good prospects to take Cliff Lee's contract? I wouldn't give up anything for Lee. Maybe some team will take Lee off of the Phillie's hands if several million bucks are included with him.

Let him walk.

signed,
Magic Johnson