Make-or-break home stretch for Villanueva

Who?

They are talking about a pitcher with a 6-2 record this year and is a career 500 pitcher making headlines in Toronto.

QUOTE(#3):

Originally posted 09:28 AM ET  08.16 by toad

They are talking about a pitcher with a 6-2 record this year and is a career 500 pitcher making headlines in Toronto.

... with a career -0.3 WAR and a 0.1 WAR this year (Baseball Reference). So basically, a replacement player. Wow, talk about a nobody.

QUOTE(#4):

Originally posted 11:42 AM ET  08.16 by h2opololpunk

... with a career -0.3 WAR and a 0.1 WAR this year (Baseball Reference). So basically, a replacement player. Wow, talk about a nobody.

Damn, I looked a the tables wrong.

Career (7 seasons) 5.3 WAR, 1.6 WAR this season. Not terrible, but nothing to write home about.

6 wins and he its expecting to be a top free agent??? doubtfull!!!!

He actually a really good middle reliever, who can start. You can't tell anything about a middle reliever by looking at wins and losses., due to the nature of the circumstances that he typically enters the game....usually the starters coughed up a pile of runs within the first few innings. He's not going to get a win unless his team comes back.

If you look at his stats, you'd see he's very consistent.

With all the Jays starters out, they plugged him onto the rotation last year and this year, and he's been excellent.

The Jays will sign him. If they don't , there will be a long line of teams looking to sign him.

BTW...WAR is a ridiculous and highly subjective statistic, imo. If you have to go to that stat, to bash a player, his other stats are obviously good.

Why not stats like Strike outs/walk ratio? His career is 2.5
His WHIP is 1.25
He's got more strike-outs than innings pitched this year (86/80)

QUOTE(#1):

Originally posted 08:24 AM ET  08.16 by h2opololpunk

Who?

Haha.

That's a good one, Water.

QUOTE(#8):

Originally posted 02:08 PM ET  08.16 by SlinkyRedfoot

Haha.That's a good one, Water.

It's easy when it's true. ;)

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

If you look at his stats, you'd see he's very consistent.

Year - ERA - ERA+ - WHIP

2006 - 3.69 - 124 - 1.01
2007 - 3.94 - 113 - 1.35
2008 - 4.07 - 104 - 1.31
2009 - 5.34 - 77 - 1.43
2010 - 4.61 - 88 - 1.33
2011 - 4.04 - 107 - 1.26
2012 - 3.12 - 140 - 1.25

I think you and I define "consistent" differently.

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

WAR is a ridiculous and highly subjective statistic, imo. If you have to go to that stat, to bash a player, his other stats are obviously good.Why not stats like Strike outs/walk ratio? His career is 2.5His WHIP is 1.25He's got more strike-outs than innings pitched this year (86/80)

I think a better argument against WAR is that it's cumulative, and not an average. I don't think it's the most objective stat available, but it carries a lot of weight and is a widely accepted sabermetric stat. Those other stats you mentioned are involved in calculating WAR. Also, 80 innings is a fair sample size for one season, but it's incomparable to what starters provide, and there's no indication of if his pitching is in high or low leverage situations. At the end of the day, middle relief comes a dime a dozen. It's not a skill, it's the dog-house of pitching.

Anyhoo, if I were to argument against WAR, my argument would be "what defines a replacement player." Of course, there are some pretty well-thought equations used to determine that.

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

He actually a really good middle reliever, who can start. You can't tell anything about a middle reliever by looking at wins and losses., due to the nature of the circumstances that he typically enters the game....usually the starters coughed up a pile of runs within the first few innings. He's not going to get a win unless his team comes back.If you look at his stats, you'd see he's very consistent.With all the Jays starters out, they plugged him onto the rotation last year and this year, and he's been excellent.The Jays will sign him. If they don't , there will be a long line of teams looking to sign him.BTW...WAR is a ridiculous and highly subjective statistic, imo. If you have to go to that stat, to bash a player, his other stats are obviously good.Why not stats like Strike outs/walk ratio? His career is 2.5His WHIP is 1.25He's got more strike-outs than innings pitched this year (86/80)

Someone's a Blue Jays fan!

QUOTE(#10):

Originally posted 02:15 PM ET  08.16 by SlinkyRedfoot

I think you and I define "consistent" differently.

Very nice, Slinky.

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

He actually a really good middle reliever

Prior to this season (which will be he career season), he's got an ERA+ of 100, with a fair amount of inconsistency.

He's a serviceable middle reliever. If he leaves the Blue Jays, another team will pick him up, but only a half-witted team would give him any kind of big contract.

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

If you have to go to that stat, to bash a player, his other stats are obviously good. Why not stats like Strike outs/walk ratio? His career is 2.5

You're getting excited about a 2.45 K/BB ratio? The National League average is 2.48.

He's what you call "serviceable." Unless, of course, you're his grandmother, in which case he's a really good relief pitcher who can start - not to mention devilishly handsome.

QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 01:04 PM ET  08.16 by spaul

He's got more strike-outs than innings pitched this year (86/80)

That's interesting. He also walks almost a full batter per 9 innings more than the average major league pitcher.

Alex Anthopoulos has a way of sending an important message about Toronto's future. Any of his players that end up a free agent, it seems, is as good as gone.

I'd say that the vast majority of players that end up as a free agent move on to other teams. This is not exclusive to Anthopoulos.

Also, typing out "Anthopoulos" sucks.

I think that should do it.

WAR is a sill stat.

silly