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Nady is almost 30 years old. He's been barely above average. How long before we see that greater upside?

Bay has consistently put up better numbers. I don't even know why this is a discussion.

put the players aside -
although bay is a better player...

The TRADE was bad for the sox- they are paying manny;s contract and gave up prospects too..........the yankees gave up a bag of BALLS for nady AND MARTE (who though hasn't been great- was / is considered the best lefty set up man around)

It's hard to judge the two trades.

Manny's disruption to the Sox season is a wild card here. They HAD to get rid of him. It cost them dearly to offload him while replacing him with an All Star caliber player. You could say they gave Manny away while agreeing to continue paying his salary.

So far Karstens has been more than a bag of balls. I don't know whether it will continue; but, 15 scoreless innings is a great start. Tabata hit a snag this year at AA. At 19 he's well below the average age for AA. He will become a solid major league player eventually. The other two pitchers don't seem to have the upside of Karstens and Tabata. In fact we can probably throw them into the bag of balls you mentioned.

The Dodgers were the big winners. They get Manny cost free by giving up two players they didn't want or need.

Well, I guess we could just wait and see how the 2 trades play out. Sounds logical doesn't it! It's ridiculous to be comparing the two after this length of time.

Did the Yankees give up a player of Manny's caliber to get their guy?

I gotta agree with JGB, and not just because we're related. Both players were the perfect medicine for what ailed their teams, but certainly, for what they gave up in players and/or cash, the Yankees got the better value, Marte's ARod-itis (see "apparently unable to perform under the slightest degree of pressure") notwithstanding.

When you look at the Sox paying Manny's contract, you probably should consider the fact that they are paying $7 million THIS year, and $0 NEXT year. And they have Bay under contract next year, at $7.5 million. What that means is, they are saving $12.5 million next season by not picking up Manny's option, and having a comparable (at least, in this stage of their careers and factoring in Manny's attitude and distractions, they are at least arguably even).....so by shelling out the $7 million this year, they are saving $5.5 million (less whatever they are paying Bay this season) between the rest of this season, and next year. And that $5.5 million savings is straight savings, since they don't now have to go out and pay Manny's replacement fifteen or twenty million on the open market.....Bay would probably garner at least $12 million a year anyway.

CF2, I agree with you.....Bay is clearly the better player in my mind.

Bay was the better player here in Pittsburgh while they were both here, so I'm going to go and say the Sox got the better end of the stick.

Nady is a great addition to the yankees he is also going to be here next year. and its a great fit. he has already proven he can play in NY when alot of other guys can't..

Bay was good for Boston, but they are still paying for MANNY BEING MANNY...

I Think that "Nady" should grow a moos-stache! Possibly we'll see the touted "upside" you all are yapping about. Go "Pablo". Break up the Dodgers!!!

Well, the bottom line is who will be playing in October??? The Yankees are still sliding and getting further out of contention. Bay was an instant addition to the team, helping the Red Sox out of their slump and being a key contributor in winning the first couple of games the Red Sox played in that he was part of. His impact has been more than Nady. Thats the bottom line.

Its hard to say...there are so many factors to consider...age, player's contract status after this year but just on the basis of skill alone NADY BY FAR IYS THE BETTER PLAYER!

This is a strange comparison. Bay is replacing Manny. That is a huge downgrade. Best right-handed hitter in the game and perhaps ever to play versus an average everyday outfielder. Nady is replacing Brett Gardner, the Yankees version of Ellesbury (fast no-hit outfielder who belongs in the minor leagues). The Redsox got worse with their trade and the Yankees unquestionably got better.

Angels got the best deal but the East Coast media has no idea what's up out West...

Its hard to say...there are so many factors to consider...age, player's contract status after this year but just on the basis of skill alone NADY BY FAR IYS THE BETTER PLAYER!
elpsea | 08/10/08, 02:48 PM
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Before this season, Nady had ONE good season in his entire career. ONE season with an OPS over .800. By comparison, Jason Bay's CAREER OPS is just under .900. Comparing the two is completely stupid.....and coming up with the conclusion that Nady is better is....well, whatever is worse than "completely stupid". Oh, they're also the same age and both signed for next season. So....good argument from start to finish, there, superstar.

The Nady thing is that "potential" thing.... most likely will never be fulfilled... you know what you're going to get from Bay for at least the next couple of years unless he pulls an Andruw Jones..... btw: pre-steroids.... there was a great article on how players drastically started to fade after age 32..... the exception being the All Star calliber players that stayed healthy..... see if that doesn't become true again....

This is a strange comparison. Bay is replacing Manny. That is a huge downgrade. Best right-handed hitter in the game and perhaps ever to play versus an average everyday outfielder.
FastaPhylip | 08/10/08, 03:10 PM
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Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa. Ok, first....Manny is probably the best right-handed hitter in the history of the game....but he's certainly not the best in the game NOW. He has slid, badly, over the last few years (and the majority of it has been his own indifference to the game of baseball). Manny was OPSing .926 at the time of the trade, while Bay was OPSing .894. Bay's career OPS is .891, so he's right where he should be. Manny, however, has a career OPS of 1.000 on the nose. Which means he was underperforming by .076 in this season....after posting a career worst .881 last season. It's not quite the downgrade people seem to think it is. And calling Bay "average" is stupid. His career OPS+ is 131 which means, with the bat, Jason Bay is 31% better than the average player.