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hey upchucka you still fixated on this topic i see. HMMM!

Dear Roger, as a reformed former born-again Christian of over 10 years, I will do as my former Lord reqeusted of me when I was a worshiper and forgive you. Go in peace my brother and sin no more. This sayeth me.

WOW! Do you ever actually think about what you say or do you just spout off things because you like the clich??? Stop being so lazy! No wonder intellectuals get bored with people like you and feel superior. (Not that I???m an intellectual so how would I know of such things?) You obviously have neither the energy nor the capability to do challenging thinking, but I???ll give you a chance anyway. Rather than get all sick inside and vomit out your insecurities by slamming me personally, argue the points of my comments and defend yourself intelligently. Don???t pull a Jerry Falwell on me and call me a sinner or pedo or nut, just address the issue of how your comment about one protesting toooooooo much actually means that that person is in favor of the opposite of what they are claiming.

For further enlightenment and discussion as to whether or not Roger is a pedo based on the ???child??? he may have been romantically involved with, please read the following and then answer the question, how old was she when he was supposed to have been with her???? And then applaud me for enlightening you all on the prepubescent piece, which seemed to offend at least one reader a little tooooo much.

http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophilia.html
Symptoms
???Recurrent, intense sexual fantasies, urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger) for a period of at least 6 months.
These fantasies, urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in everyday functioning. The person is at least age 16 and at least 5 years older than the child in the first category.
However, this does not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.???

???Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies.???
???Perpetrators often delude themselves into viewing their actions as helpful to children. They might tell themselves they are contributing to a child's development or that the child is enjoying the act; however, they do tell their victims not to alert their parents or authorities.???

An estimated 20 percent of American children have been sexually molested, making pedophilia the most common paraphilia. Offenders are usually family friends or relatives. Types of activities vary and may include just looking at a child or undressing and touching a child. However, acts often do involve oral sex or touching of genitals of the child or offender. Studies suggest that children who feel uncared for or lonely may be at higher risk.???

ME AGAIN: Do you know why Socrates was put in prison???? He was falsely convicted of two crimes, one being ???Corrupting the Young,??? in which he taught the young how to think freely and challenge the existing mindset. This, as in all eras and all times before and since, is the corrupted logic that many people in power and most lazy minded folks subscribe to and therefore, this is what I am up against here. I???m smiling of course????????????

Good thing Roger Clemens sued his former close friend because had he not, his secret life may still be hidden from we blood thirsty mongrels and had he not sued, none of us would have become so intimate with each other, not so soon anyway. It???s good he never pitched for the O???s because I???d hate to have to add him to the list of X Orioles who should be in jail, there are so many already.

KPKahder -82 days |
Just a follow-up on the ???thou dost protest too much??? thang, so, using your analogy of thangs, I guess that means those who protested with great energy and vigor and consistency against laws that furthered the policy of ???separate but equal??? were in fact, because they protested soooooo much, really in favor of the law they protested against. And I would assume too, using your brand of logic anyway, that those who are falsely imprisoned and because of that they scream and holler day and night in protest of their incarceration are in fact feeling like they should be locked up. And I guess those devoted glossy eyed anti-abortionists who picket, boycott, march and pray for hours and days and even months holding candlelight vigil???s and such and those who live to overturn Roe vs. Wade are, deep down inside, really in favor of abortions. And perhaps the child who has been abused and who protests such abuse over and over again, but because the adults do not listen, that child acts out and makes scenes and constantly complains is really feeling like he/she wants to be abused? And what about all those fundamentalists out there who protest day and night against the sinful ways of man and proclaim with almighty righteousness that Jesus will return to destroy billions of men women and children who have not come to know Him personally as their savior, I guess they???re protesting against sin a little too much and perhaps are really closet supporters of sin and all its delicious trappings.

Here's one for you I think you'll get.

8/16/00 SEEN CLEARLY
Sometimes everything just seems silly.
Moments look forced
Events look senseless
Players on a stage
With no purpose
Giving a lecture
Hitting a ball
Dancing

Like painting lines on a page
Together forming landscapes
Separated they're just lines
Removed from purpose
Fragmented moments
No way to measure
Simple
Insane

4/30/00 DECADES OF ERAS (errors)
Janis sang the Blues
And kissed the booze
Jimmy kissed the sky
And rock soon died

The cancer born
Was political porn
Continuing the fall
Of us all

Hippies are dead
Manson???s in bed
When the sixties died
The seventies cried

Rock held court
But far to short
???We??? would win
Until ???I??? crept in

John took one
From a psycho's gun
The dream is over, no crimson or clover.

Carter brought peace
To a troubled Middle East
Then Reagan brought pace
To an old arms race

Young is old
And growing cold
Thank God Johnny Rotten
Has been forgotten

Then there???s Kiss
Oh no! Not this!
Rock???s still killing
Our children still willing




Long Live Rock
Don???t push, please stop
The eighties roared
While rock sales soared

Now Reagan leads
But the poor still bleed
The dream is over, no crimson or clover.

Twenty foot cars
And overcrowded bars
Afraid of AIDS
It???s the condom phase

Hair is out
Young Tears scream SHOUT!
Rappen and Rollin
New age un-folden

Prince is gone
No name lives on
Road rage kills
Unforeseen social ills

Young people creeping
Answers still sleeping
Crack is king
One hit you???ll sing

The damage is done
No war was won
The dream is over, no crimson or clover.

Hate is the fate
You fools create
The end is near
For those not clear

Planets aligned
As prophets cried
The end is near
But have no fear

Jesus retrieves
Those he believes
But preachers keep falling
To their sexual calling

Six, six, six
Was a trickier mix
Than anyone thought
Who seeks or sought

Stocks kept risen
While Milken was thriven
Computer chips
In star wars ships

Special effects
And targeted threats
Left smart bombs
For serial cons

The Lakers landed
As Jordan planted
Then Nike denied
That slavery thrived

The nineties are gone
But hatred lives on
As Bigotry looms
For our children to consume

I sing old songs
That linger on
Cause at thirty-eight
I still feel great
But the dream is over.

Pimpylooka? You got music to these or are they for speaking only?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg191.htm
The story of Sodom:
This story in Genesis 19 is generally thought of in terms of the fate of one or two cities: Who you tryin' to get crazy with ese? Don't you know I'm loco?

Yeah! Ain't we all. Nice poetry, Have you been writing for long or was that just off the top of your head?

AND HE'S BACK WITH A VENGENCE OR IS THAT VENGINCE OR VENGANCE, OH WELL, SOME CAN'T READ SO WHAT'S THE DIFF.

iT MAKES A SOUND IF YOU ARE LISTENING.

With all this positive support, I need to open a Lucem ferre counseling service. Just ask Lucem ferre, I'll call it.

Lesson four: A 15-year old girl, when in reference to having sex with an adult is usually called a minor. The ???offending adult is referred to as having corrupted the morals of a minor,??? and when found guilty he/she is said to have had deviant sexual intercourse with a minor, in some cases.

This term ???minor??? is not being defined as a ???child??? is defined Refer to number four below, ???Law, Being under the legal age; not yet a legal adult.??? And again under n. 2 ???Law. One who has not reached full legal age.??? Says nothing about child although children do fall under a broader generic description, however, please explain how a judge and the law get away with defining a 13-year old boy as an adult so we can try him for murder as an adult and then send him to an adult prison?

How do you explain a 20-year old minor (person not legally an adult) getting busted for drinking while all the college professors who are screwing his 19 year-old sister are well within their legal right to do so?

Seems like your argument stinks my friend and you???ve just been punked! Oh! And I just brought it on.

mi???nor (m??'n??r)
adj.
1. Lesser or smaller in amount, extent, or size.
2. Lesser in importance, rank, or stature: a minor politician.
3. Lesser in seriousness or danger: a minor injury.
4. Law. Being under legal age; not yet a legal adult.
5. Chiefly British. Relating to or being the younger or junior of two pupils with the same surname.
6. Of or relating to a secondary area of academic specialization.
7. Logic. Dealing with a more restricted category.
8. Music.
a. Relating to or being a minor scale.
b. Less in distance by a half step than the corresponding major interval.
c. Based on a minor scale: a minor key.
n.
1. One that is lesser in comparison with others of the same class.
2. Law. One who has not reached full legal age.
In law, the term minor (also infant or infancy) is used to refer to a person who is under the age in which one legally assumes adulthood and is legally granted rights afforded to adults in society. Depending on the jurisdiction and application, this age may vary, but is usually marked at either 18 or 21. Specifically, the status of "minor" is defined by the age of majority[verification needed].
In many countries, including Croatia, India, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, a minor is presently defined as a person under the age of 18. In the United States, where the age of majority is set by the individual states, 'minor' usually refers to someone under the age of 18, but can be used in certain areas to define someone under the age of 21.
In the criminal justice system in some places, the term "minor" is not entirely synonymous, as a minor may be tried for a crime (and punished) as a juvenile or an adult (usually only for extremely serious crimes such as murder).

Lucem ferre here! It???s me again, in case you read all the way to the bottom of this. Makes for some pretty arbitrary situations does it not!

It???s all a matter of interpretation and it is based on the decision of an individual judge not your interpretation. Example, a 13 year old who commits murder may or may not be tried as an adult. If so, does this mean he???s really an adult and therefore is permitted to have sex with other adults?

Lesson # two my disturbed and quite angry friend: A teenager can get a license at age 16 but that teen is not considered a child, he/she is considered a teen or a young adult. We don???t give a drivers license to a child.

Lesson three: A 21 year old can drink alcohol but a 20 year and 364 day old cannot without breaking the law. Is that nearly 21 year old a child or a minor or a frustrated adult. He/she is a minor, not a child and under these circumstances, not an adult even though he or she could have gone to war to kill other ???children??? three years ago. So, when the judge is overseeing the trial of the adult who served that minor, the judge does not refer to the ???victim??? whether 16 or almost 21 as a child but rather a minor. ???Convicted of serving alcohol to a minor or person under the legal age.???

"Im sick of effing psychologists coming up with excuses for deviant behavior.
dont give one hoot about what a psychology book says a "child" is. Its the effing psychologists books that have handcuffed parents and teachers from disciplining their children. Do NOT spout your pansy ass psychology rhetoric to me. Its worthless. a Child is LEGALLY defined as "A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority".
You wanna battle, bring it on.
Not one damn court in this country gives a shyt WHAT a psychologist defines as a child. Its how a child is LEGALLY defined. "


I thought I had already brought it on. someone has some unresolved issues here! perhaps a good shrink or priest could hellp you through your pain. oh, and by the way, i am the result of a botched abortion. too bad eh? So the lyrics of one little song got you all so hung up on sex and perversion and who knows what else but all you need do to start the healing process is admit you are sick. C'mon now let's all say it at the same time, "My name is _______ fill in the blank, and I'm in total denial of my real self." There you go, now the healing has begun.

The bottom line is that SEX with a CHILD is illegal. It is morally and legally reprehensible in the year 2008.

Sorry I had to come back for one more round,

Define child smart one. 3, 6, 10, 15, 17, or next week perhaps it will be 27. and as for life expectancy being so short back then, people died young due to diseases but if one lived into adulthood it was normal for that person, baring an accident or death in war, to live into his 60's and besides, didn't i say that its not about morality. You just made my arguement, thank you, because its about what we want it to be about and has nothing to do with MORALITY.

ONE MORE THING ABOUT LIFE EXPECTANCY, why did that great book claim Moses lived hundreds of years and Noah and Abraham and all those guys lived to be so old? A little contradiction have weeeee? Adam lived to be nearly 1000 years old, go ahead and trace the years my friends, it seems like the more you guys say the dumber it gets. by now

they lived by their rules, we live by ours.
in todays context, and i think we can all agree on the meaning of the word "today" (today, this particular place in time)
roger is a ped o file

OHHHH! my bad, I did not know we were arguing about rules, so when the jew were fried in the ovens we should have let it be because the Germans were living by their rules and since it was okay to kill them all back then we should not assume that was a bad thing, like slavery, old testament rapes, murder and so forth. I'm now bored with you so one big cheer as Lucem ferre (the bringer of the light) is going back to Oriole land and Laker land. by guys and gals, it was fun. and remember, i told you sex and drugs and country roll is much more interesting than baseball or football. love n peace

I strongly advise you recheck your dictionary.
A Pedophile is a noun and its definition is "an adult that is sexually attracted to a child or children".

go read a psychology book and not a dictionary. and child means child not youth, that's why it's called Children, Youth and Families as Youth are typically young adults while children are children. You've got infant, toddler, preschooler, school age child, preteen or adolescent, then teen is next and young adult. do some home work my friends, each age represents a different stage of growth and development and for each if someone is sexuall attrracted to a child or youth there are different treatments. Wanting to have sex with a 2 month old is a lot different than wanting it with a fully developed 15 year old, but if you don't think so, (I'm laughing at you really loud but do not be offended as I just think it's funny that you have no clue yet you argue as if you do)

what was 2008?

so i guess all of our ancestors, all those farmers who for thousands of years while in thier 20's and 30's and where having sex with young childbaring age girls were pedophiles. HMMM! that must mean that we're all from the same stock eh? get a brain to go along with your energy and zeal. Think a little bit at least before you throw me off or under the bus again. EEEEEKKK!

"not according to the laws of this country and of society in general.
pedophilia is sex or improper contact with a person not of legally consenting age."

according to the laws of this country, having sex with a minor is not defined as pedophilia, it depends on how old or young that miner is. Society determined, not very long ago I might add, that children, those young people who happen to be under a certain age, cannot be forced to work or be beaten or treated like dogs by grownups or be seduced into having sex with older men or women, but these are all relatively new laws as child labor laws don't even exist prior to last century and while we were an agricultural society it was NORMAL to marry off a 20 something year old male with a 13 year old female because SOCIETY accepted the fact that she was old enough to have children, therefore, old enough to have sex often with an older man to produce as many hands for working the farm as possible. it was all about economics and survival and had nothing to do with MORALITY. READ YOUR HISTORY BOOKS OR BETTER YET, TALK TO YOUR GREAT GRANDPARENTS.

DID NOT FORGET, CHOSE TO LEAVE CAPS LOCK

Oh sister magistry, you are quick to throw stones and slow to listen or learn. People who go after children for sexual reasons are consumed by something as powerful as any other addiction but society has little tollerance or understanding of these people while we've come to the rescue of alcoholics and drug addicts in large numbers. I simply have a better understanding of these "illnesses" than you, perhaps because I've been working in this field for 25 years and therefore, I am not willing to destroy a man or woman simply because their actions make me sick or hurt other people, if i were to act that way I'd be the first person to go after the Pope and all his Cardinals for covering up a 2000 year history of child molestation.

So where are you, your magestry, when it comes to priests screwing little boys for 2000 years and the church, the entire church, covering it up. are you still a catholic and do you still tithe your 10 percent? good for you my dear, good for you

spelling aside for all you perfectionists who like to avoid the topic for the sake of a better grade in spelling, Pedaphilia has to do with prepubescent girls and boys not ones who are fully developed. By definition, you moron, a pedaphile is not someone attracted to gilrs who are developed physically.

And your magistry, accepting something is the first step in understanding it but not the last. I can accept you for being fat, stupid, lazy, Black, White, Jewish, or Christian but that does not mean I condone those parts of you, it means I can live with you being my neighbor and it means I am not going to kill you for your faults. That, my slightly annoyed friend, is what growing up is all about.