One other thing that wasn't mentioned, but IMO has given a distinct advantage to the conferences/schools that practice it. That is, over-recruiting, grey shirting, and most slimy of all is pulling the scholly of players that think they are in good standing, grades ok, adhering to team rules, putting forth effort; IOW doing all the stuff they can control. then some representative of the school makes some kind of statement maligning the kid, saying he just wasn't doing 'x'. In reality they have some young stud they need a scholly for.

Yes, many team practice these recruiting tricks to some degree, but it's like scheduling cupcakes, or which conference is 'best'. Some of us deny, some of us over-emphasize, etc. We all deep down know it is true, the debate is really a matter of degree.

And yes, I know the SEC has tried to curtail the practice, but any 'curtailing' hasn't yet had time to take affect, it's something we won't see results from for 2 or 3 years. agree or disagree, slimy or smart, one advantage the SEC has, one thing that has given them an edge, is the willingness to do whatever it takes to get to the top.

Much like the word being debated in this thread- 'best'. Words without real definition, ephemeral meanings at best, subject to opinion.

Over time? how much... Single team won-loss, number of championships? etc,etc.... I know, lets have a cpl of polls and computers decide the best 2 conferences and let them go toe to toe right after the BCS NC...

'Cept I'm a little vague on how conferences play each other; any one else know?

Will the real SOS please stand up...

BYW Orac, congrats on the Rose. You worried about losing Shaw? He's a good'n IMO...

Yeah Tinnie, that's what I'm thinking. Pat is a Rhodes Scholar so I'm sure he has it figgered. My guess is, barring some Kiffin miracle, Pat lets him ride out the scholly reductions, unles Lanes classlessness strikes again, and then makes a move. My guess is he's looking even now, watching up and comers etc.

Not to mention the PAC; there is also talk about NFL courting David Shaw, who in some respects is a better NFL prospect than the Chipper.

I DON'T want the main Trojan competition removed (now you can include UCLA again as well; even if Baylor took them apart, the Waco boys were VERY good at the end of the season). At this point I want Kiffin (no more nicey nicknames like Kiff) gone, even if he can recruit, even if he were the the best OTF coach around, he has shown his classlessness. At Tennessee some of the sophomoric stunts I chalked up to immaturity, and who wouldn't leave the Vols for Troy (kiddin NOT Tinnie). but his krap this year, I'm on the 'Fire Kiffin' bandwagon.

But those 2 (Kelley and Shaw) are credits to the profession. It kills me also that the best coach in LA is in Westwood.

Watching the Alamo bowl with about a 15 minute delay; O State's O line just destroyed the Texas front 7, just about every running play on that drive was a 1st down.

Taking nothing from 'Da Bears', But it goes to show how important those guys in the trenches are. How many sacks did Baylor get? Almost as many as the rest of the year combined.

But the Bear offense is all that... So far the PAC has been disappointing, 0 for 3. 4 more shots, all look winnable but no guarantees...

I didn't play, but I'm pretty sure I would be 3-0 if I had; does that count?

Alamo should be a good test for both teams, and the TCU-MSU should be a good one.

Seasons greetings Tinnie, hope all is well...

Been gone awhile, watched the Baylor-UCLA game last night. WOW! Baylor made a statement. I thought it was all RGIII, I thought they just got lucky and caught K-State on a down day.

I think maybe I was wrong. They really got it goin' on, if they find a decent QB for next year...

BTW, thanks MB, you were a classy Trojan. You did it right, hope the NFL is good to you.

And Max W, you got Carson P's arm, the 1st Troy QB since him to have a gun. The others were good 'nuff, but now it's your turn, make it count.

Hope everyone had a merry Christmas. Been out of pocket, but am having good family time.

Saw 'The Hobbit' with my daughter and 3 of my GKids last night. Great start (only covers the 1st half of the book). Sad that youngest daughter wasn't with us, so is she, but I promised that we would see the 2nd half together; when the 2 youngest were about 6 or 7 I would read the book to them every night at bedtime, now I'm taking their kids to see the movie. I have been waiting for this movie since I was in HS in the early '70's when a GF got me to read it.

Anyway, everyone have a happy new year and "FIGHT ON", Troy Fan or not!

Readers digest version in honor of the Irish success this year:

Rugby > Football. Wisconsin Defense = Rugby. Wisconsin > ND.

Wow, sorry Van, you guys aren't #1 after all, Wisconsin is. Whoops, that made 4 (4>3), dang, now it's 5. I better quit now, it's 6. No, 7 counting the intro, and this makes it 8. Aaaaaaaaaaaargh, this is why I have probs with verbosity, I don't know when to quit (9).

Well, I didn't watch the game, but I AM very ignorant concerning rugby defense and strategy. In other words my in-expertise makes me the perfect person to respond to this thread.

Wisconsin's rugby style defense is such a "Back to The Future" revelation/revolution that it scored 70 points? Wow, the Trojans are looking for a DC, is Wisconsin's available for purchase? We are U$C after all.

I echo everybody's thanks to Pitt and Nork, it was fun and you guys did a great job.

I noticed a cpl of things about the final tally; DJRox, and I'm sure others, were missing. Was it cuz they didn't participate this last week or what?

Also noticed I was waaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of D2: I had 247 right, he ONLY had 246. Ahhhhhhhhh, the thrill of victory! ;-) (winky smiley face)

2 Bama vs 3 UGA => UGA ***-1
6 KSU vs 18 Texas => the Cats +1
8 Stanford vs 16 UCLA => Tree Peeps +1
11 OU at TCU => Froggies ***-1
12 NEB vs WISC => COC ***-1
13 FSU vs GT => FSU +1
15 OrSU vs Nichols => Beavs +1
17 Kent State vs 22 Northern ILL => UNI +1
23 OkSU at Baylor => Okie St ***-1

Notables:
L-ville at Rutgers => Red Guys ***-1
UCF at Tulsa => Golden Hurricane +1
Pitt @ USF => Pitt +1

Total hoser errors:
2 Bama vs 3 UGA => UGA ***-1
11 OU at TCU => Froggies ***-1
12 NEB vs WISC => COC ***-1
23 OkSU at Baylor => Okie St ***-1
L-ville at Rutgers => Red Guys ***-1

Total => -5

I agree with all you said, but it did seem like the D was playing better towards the end of last year. Also, the philosophy against O seemed to work last year for 3 qtrs, till they wore down.

There was the extenuating circumstance of depth issues during his time at Troy, and the lack of tackling in practice was real evident in games. Stanford also showed that to beat O you have to tackle well in space. Hell, this year Troy couldn't even tackle in a crowd.

They won their last bowl game, and it was a minor bowl (2009 Emerald bowl beat BC 24-13). Haven't lost but one bowl game since 2002, but it was a doozy.

But I know what you mean, pre Pete C it seems like they went, and lost, the Holiday bowl almost every year.

What I read said he was headed back to the NFL, but I don't remember if it was a quote or where it came from.

Sun Bowl is cool, New Years Eve vs ACC; not a conference you see them play often.