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The Canes barely beat the worst FSU defense in the last 30 years. Out of the 43 FSU position players that have seen playing time this year only 16 of them are were Juniors or Seniors. How is that not young?

As for the article, I am hoping this is Bobby's last year. Jimbo's development of talent on the offensive side of the ball as well as his recruiting and talent evaluation skills make him appear to have the qualities needed to be a good HC. The word is that Fisher will have the power to hire and fire coaches placed into his contract after this year, and if that happens then what is the point of having Bobby on the sideline. He doesn't call plays, would not be in charge of either the defensive or offensive gameplan and he would not be picking the staff. He doesn't recruit and he obviously doesn't draw fans to the stadium by his name anymore. Time to let the old man go.

No way Foster leaves Va Tech to take our a non-bcs gig or become DC at another school. He has mentioned on tv before that he would onbly leave for the right job. The one you can be certain would take the job is Bowden, but if he does well there he is gone as soon as a BCS conference team offers him a job.

People have been saying Bowden needs to go for a while, the product on the field has just gotten so bad that the level has finally become critical. Winning and losing seasons are actually created well in advance of when we see them on tv. Bobby has, with the exception of Jimbo, Trickett, Coley and Dawsey, stopped hiring competent assistant coaches and instead just brought guys in from the good ole boy network. The coaches are in no danger of being fired since they are Bobby's boys. So they then go out and do a half a**ed job of coaching and recruiting. Now FSU has major holes on the d-line and the most talented players at at least four positions are sophomores or freshmen.

Deion is so removed from the situation that he knows next to nothing about the current state of FSU's football program. When he hears Bowden he thinks of Bobby from 15 years ago, not the shell of a coach he has become who doesn't recruit or coach but just cashes checks as he stumbles forward in his hopeless pursuit of Joe Pa.

A near decade of decline is not a bump in a road, it is a clear pattern. Saying many programs would kill for that decade is an acceptance of mediocrity. FSU has become completely noncompetitive on on a national level and has been that way for years. 2 or 3 years is a trend, 8 or 9 is a new reality. Bowden does not have 33 years of success. His career with FSU is clearing bell shaped and it is on the way down. Saying we should get over it is like telling Google to accept falling to 4th or 5 in search engines or telling congress that they should accept our economy falling behind China, Canada, the UK and Germany. When you are truly in decline from the top you don't go along from the ride, you strive to be elite.

The adjustments that need to be made to succeed in the future IS getting rid of Bowden. He does not take part in the 12 month recruiting cycle putting us at a major disadvantage for every recruit in the south east. He hasn't won since the current group of high schoolers were in grade school putting us in another disadvantage with recruits. He also refuses to fire any incompetent assistant coach he hires, putting us at a further disadvantage. He refused to fire Jeff, saying he would have a job as long as Bobby was HC. He hired Carter and kept him around even when he failed the recruiting test several times leaving us one man down on the trail. He hired Allen who had no experience playing or coaching defensive ends and keeps him on staff even when the unit is learning nothing from his "coaching". He hired Amato again even when nobody else would, made him executive head coach and now even though Amato has the unit with the worst technique and least amount of discipline he not only won't fire Amato but wants to promote the man.

Things will improve with Fisher because he will demand more from his assistants. He will not leave us down several coaches on the recruiting trail. If a coach can not make his unit play at the highest level they can he will fire the coach. In other words he will do things we actually expect a head coach to do.

Since you are so intent on keeping Bobby, give me one reason to keep him that doesn't depend on seasons from the last century. This is about the future of the program and the future of 18 year old kids who are entrusting their future to the FSU coaching staff. It isn't about the history of a coach allows a kid with first round gifts like Watson to be put in a scheme so horrible and coached up so badly that he is a complete unknown to the nation of sports fans.

So because he was good years ago he is allowed to be horrible now? I hope you never are in charge of running anything in your life with that kind of evaluation of management. Bowden has seen roughly a 40 percent drop in wins and donations are down 12 million over the last four years. What kind of business would keep a ceo like that? The decline in football and what that means during an economic downturn IS the big picture.

Let me also add that Bowden also no longer recruits as well. You will constantly spot coaches like Saban, Miles or Meyer at high schools working on kids. Bowden not so much. You will hear 5 stars talk about getting phone calls and having discussion with Carroll and Meyer and Brown. Bowden not so much. So if he isn't coaching on game day, isn't recruiting and isn't hiring quality assistants and firing under performing ones then why keep paying him 2.5 mil?

There is no logical reason for Bowden to remain the head coach at FSU. People who say he built the program and deserves to stay as long as he wants are living in nostalgia. Why does building something give you the right to run it into the ground? Does that mean the construction crew can take a bulldozer to your house? Ticket sales and attendance are down. Donations are down and falling as well. And that is before you get to the heart of the problem.

The true problem is that Bowden has completely lost touch. He readily admits he does no gameday coaching and leaves everything up to his assistants. But the only assistants doing a good job are Jimbo and his crew. They are also the only coaches actually recruiting. If you follow recruiting at all the only coaches you see named by recruits are on the offensive side of the ball. We have an OC and WR coach pulling in the top defensive recruits because the coaches on the defensive side of the ball, all of whom are Bobby's boys, aren't pulling their weight with the exception of Haggins this year.

Some would say fire the assistants and keep Bobby, but Bobby not only won't fire Amato and co but he wants to promote Amato to DC. The coach with the most undisciplined and underachieving unit is to get a promotion? WTF? And if you are for cleaning house on an entire side of the ball in order for Bowden to stay, then you have to see we have been down this road before. It really is time for Bobby to go and if he won't retire he needs to be retired.

As far as Jimbo goes, at the very least he will have a full staff who recruits and that is the key to UM's revival. Its not like Shannon is a genius but he put together a good staff, hit the trail and now they are a top 10 team. No reason why FSU can't do the same. This is not going to be like Arkansas because FSU has a very fertile recruiting footprint when you combine Florida with South Georgia.

A scrimmage IS a form of practice. And everyone else has their QB in a bright jersey that means he is playing one hand touch out on the field. Going live with a QB is insanity. This is going to be an ugly year for BC. I bet ND runs up the score on them.

I forget Whipple was fired as a QB coach and then ended up at the Eagles as Ass. Off. Cord. Got his two NFL gigs jumbled together. Big Ben is a QB that gets by on his scrambling and improvisation instead of making good reads and mechanics. The one thing Whipple could have helped him with, holding the ball too long, has never been corrected and is the root of many of Ben's problems. The fact remains that Whipple has never called plays for or against the kind of players he will be seeing and you have a QB with less than a year of experience running a new offense with only one offseason to try and master it. Unless you think Whipple is the new Norm Chow and Harris is the new Carson Palmer that isn't happening.

FSU didn't kill Miami going up the middle. They killed them on the edge, with misdirection and QB runs because Randy wanted to stay in the Cover 2 for most of the game. Who your DC is doesn't matter much because RS is the de facto DC.

Also rattling off in coming freshmen means nothing. The list of kids who come in off HS and truly contribute during a season is few and far between, relatively speaking. There is no reason to think the incoming backs will even get many meaningful carries, much less be a game changing force.

Whipple was a QB coach on a team with an established Superstar at the QB spot. He hasn't called plays above Div II, just like I said in the first post. I love how you back up your comments about the lines matching up with some sort of in depth analysis. Last year, as a bunch of freshmen and sophomores, the line led the way to FSU wracking up 281 yards on Miami. Why would that change after the O-line gets bigger and stronger? If your backs are exception than Thomas must be the second coming of Warrick Dunn since his numbers put both of their numbers to shame.

What a delusional statement. FSU has the only QB with a season of experience. The only OC who has done the job above the Div II level. And 2 O-linemen on the watch list for the top awards at their positions. The Noles also have the best back on the field. Thomas had one less carry than James but 198 more yards. He had 102 less carries than Cooper but only 1 less TD.

Miami has another round of musical coordinators, a stick figure QB, and two extremely average half backs.

Noles by 14.

I meant to say best o-line coach in country and best o-line in the conference. McMahon is on the Remington award watch list for best C in the country. Hudson is preseason all ACC and on the Lombardi Trophy watch list for best lineman or linebacker in the country. How exactly is FSU becoming a passing team when they were the 2nd best rushing team in the ACC last season and haven't played a game since?

I'll be in Doak for the game. Funny thing though, the only person crying at the last UM-FSU game was that big Hurricane player right before half time. Don't see any reason why this year should be any different.

Post shows you know nothing about the other teams. FSU's o-line is seen as a strength. Returning 5 starters and having the best o-line coach in the country is nothing to dismiss. Many members of the press are even going so far as to call it the best o-line in the country. This is the first off season that many of them have spent in a college S and C program so they will be better this year than last. And last year the Noles were 2nd in the ACC in rushing and ran all over the Canes. So why would UM try and make FSU run?

Second, nobody will ever make GT throw. They run when leading. Run when behind. They even run on passing downs. So how will UM make them run? And then VA Tech is a running team as well. The main question of the off season was if Tyrod Taylor would learn how to pass the ball. But you say UM will make them run?

This is the kind of post that gives Canes fans a bad name. Some person who obviously knows nothing about football spouting nonsense and making the Canes out to be world beaters. 5-7 is a distinct possibility for the U this year, with the wins coming against FAMU, UCF, Wake, UVA and Duke.

I read about Jaygun a while back. The blog I read suggested he wasn't ranked because he was suspended for most of last season. If you only appear in 6 games, and then don't hit the camping circuit the major sites will have no idea who you are. But if you are a "star QB" and the coach sits you for half the season and all the playoffs that raises red flags for me.

I think this is as much about TK's outlook on the NCAA as it is about Bowden's records. TK has fought the NCAA on pretty much anything they have directed at the Noles for as long as he has been here. He and Bowden both need to swallow their egos on this one. My only hope is a new president is chosen before this appeal gets to the next step, and he/she decides all this money would be better spent in the classroom than the courtroom.

And speaking as a Nole fan for around the last 20 years, I can't remember or care less about Bowden's win total. I care about '93, '99 and my memories of watching Ward, Kanell, Wienke and the others light up the scoreboard.

All T and R does is copy and paste stories from other sites. So if you don't like the headline talk to the A-town Journal. UGA getting 3 top kids that other schools want is dog bites man, Ga Tech taking a kid that UGA wanted is man bites dog. Complaining about the lack of UGA being represented is just silly.

Also, the Big 3 in Florida are not sweating because UGA gets a couple of kids from the state every year. There is so much talent here that the kids won't be missed. Comparatively speaking, it should be a bigger worry by UGA that FSU can walk into South Ga and get a kid like Greg Reid and a couple of his teammates.

People really need to stop just reading the T&R blurbs and read the real blog the quotes come from. The guy who wrote the blog has been following recruiting in SFLA for 13 years and brings up points about how the best players no longer have the U way out in front like they used to. They bring up Clements for example, who has been vocal with the fact that UGA and FSU are out in front for him even though he is the top RB on Miami's board. The guy bring up a couple other examples, and they are all anecdotal but I would put a little bit of salt in what he thinks given his experience.

The days of "The State of Miami" are coming to an end, and it was bound to happen sooner or later. Other schools have been attempting to build inroads for years in the area, and now that the other schools are having more success than Miami it is only logical that kids look other places. OSU has already been cherry picking a few from the area, USC is trying to make more of a push in SFLA and Michigan will be looking to the area more as well now. That isn't even mentioning the signs that FSU will be making more of a push into the Muck under Fisher. Miami is going to have to start working harder.

Bringing politics into this thread is silly, especially since people are leaving out anything that doesn't support their side. Impeachment does not mean guilt and anyone who expecting Obama to turn things around in less than a year is an idiot. Dems didn't try to impeach Bush because they were too busy playing the game of politics, as usual in Washington. Now back to sports....

Asking Bowden to resign over this is stupid. These incidents were completely out of Bowden's control, so why ask him to resign over something he could do nothing about? Someone also said FSU was outed by a whistle blower. I guess you missed the part where it was said these violations were self reported, after being found out by an internal investigation and FSU assessed it's own penalties which the NCAA only marginally added to. The NCAA report commends FSU for doing everything that they could have done from start to finish with this situation.

You should avoid talking about things you don't understand. The scholarship reductions FSU is being hit with are extremely minimal. The past four years FSU has averages around 84 scholarship football players every year. With the reductions FSU can have 82 after the next recruiting cycle and then 84 the year after that. The lost scholarships will mean nothing to FSU.

And Meyer does not dominate recruiting in the state of Florida. FSU signed the best DT in Florida last year, Miami picked up two of the Seminole High trio and the 4 star kids pretty much split up evenly between the three schools. The state of Florida is too big and has too much talent for one school to ever dominate it's recruiting.

The tutoring at FSU was removed from the AD's office years ago. This was a case of a class where everyone was said to be able to cheat and some athletes got caught going for the easy A.

Bringing up the Fab Five shows that the people trying to draw a line between what FSU has done and what OSU and USC are charged with don't know what they are talking about. Boosters and agents handing out gifts is pretty much the worse possible thing in the sight of the NCAA. But the reason most Nole fans think losing the wins is insane is because the NCAA admitted that the school did everything correctly. It is impossible to suspend players without proof, and the NCAA agreed that FSU acted as swiftly as possible so why punish them for not acting faster?

That being said, I would much rather give up wins than scholarships. A few less wins will not make Bowden less of a legend. Penn State fans will think Joe Pa is better, FSU fans will stay say Bowden is better. Bowden will still have more titles than Spurrier and more wins than any coach to ever work at a major program in the South. Losing the wins will most likely serve to hand the job to Jimbo a bit sooner and let FSU get back to business as usual.